Saskatoon seed royalty meeting

[walterm]

If they take an end point royalty on grain produced from farm saved seed they're stealing from Farmers !

I don't understand how when R&D develop a variety and sell it to breeder is that not the end point
or is it when breeder sells it to commercial seed grower is that not end point
or when seed grower sells it to farmer is that not end point
or is it when farmer sells it to grain buyer
or when grain buyer sells to mill or export
or when mill sells to baker
or store or when sells to consumer?

Why is farmer considered end point? Everyone benefits and should pay IMHO.

[farmaholic]

If this seed tax makes it through, are you willing to continue to contribute to the different commodity groups? Some of those check off dollars already go to R&D into seed varieties. Why should I have to pay twice?

SaskWheat, $1.00/t
SaskCanola, $0.75/t
SaskFlax, $2.36/t
SaskBarley, $1.06/t
SaskPulse, .67% of gross sales...non refundable.

What does it add up to on your farm on an average annual basis?

And now someone else wants access to my wallet without my consent!

I have NEVER asked for a refund but I just might this coming August. I have already compiled the list, deadlines, and how to access the forms.

I am so tired of being taken for granted!

We, in the Slum of the Ghetto, will be paying approximately $3500 in check-offs for our modest(small) sized farm....of which nearly a third is Saskpulse's non-refundable portion.

Edit in...this farm also pays income taxes(if Gov wants to claim they are supporting Ag R&D) and the RR freight overcharges get funneled to WGRF. Where is the CGC surplus going to end up?

[jazz]

Contrary to what most seem to think on here farming can be quite profitable and I couldn’t imagine quitting farming to take on a MP or MLA salary

Try starting a farm from scratch and then get back to us.

You are going to kill this industry dead. I know a lot of farmers who will quit before they allow a royalty off their produce. Good job.

Why is farmer considered end point? Everyone benefits and should pay IMHO.

Cause they know the end consumer wont pay for it so its pinned on the guys who will take it and not complain. Face it we are feeding the 3rd world here not fancy restaurants in Europe. Those people don't give a damn about these traits. People in india eat dirt if the lentils get too expensive.

Cant believe the people who were on the consultation for this. They don't represent farmers. The represent agribusiness seed fertilizer and input companies. Some of these big farms are starting to sell inputs and seed. See the relation?

Buy I am glad someone like vvalk came on here and exposed it all. Now I know how to manage my business accordingly.

[the big wheel]

Try starting a farm from scratch and then get back to us.

You are going to kill this industry dead. I know a lot of farmers who will quit before they allow a royalty off their produce. Good job.



Cause they know the end consumer wont pay for it so its pinned on the guys who will take it and not complain. Face it we are feeding the 3rd world here not fancy restaurants in Europe. Those people don't give a damn about these traits. People in india eat dirt if the lentils get too expensive.

Cant believe the people who were on the consultation for this. They don't represent farmers. The represent agribusiness seed fertilizer and input companies. Some of these big farms are starting to sell inputs and seed. See the relation?

Buy I am glad someone like vvalk came on here and exposed it all. Now I know how to manage my business accordingly.

Absolutely correct!!!!
Glad it was exposed what's going on. One of the problems is people can't seperate theory from reality. In theory wheatboard was a good thing reality it went haywire
Free market is good in theory but it doesn't exist only in people s imaginary minds to suit their political cause which is all theory also and not the reality.
Reality is rhat this will be a huge cost increase for all is farmers not to mention a loss of our independance which ironically is what rhe free market is supposed to be.

[RedLentil]

If the length of an agriville thread is any indication of the importance of an issue this thread is it.


With the passing of the agriculture growth act in 2015 Canada was able to ratify UPOV 91. So the UPOV convention has been revised a few time 1968, 72, 78 and 91. It seems we are way overdue for another revision. What is going to happen when that day comes? We are on a slippery slope.

[wd9]

Why is farmer considered end point? Everyone benefits and should pay IMHO.

Because the farmer is the end of buying retail where the product becomes wholesale again. It's why we "can't pass on our costs" because we are the end of the line. It was carefully designed that way.

Haven't you ever wondered why you buy crop inputs from a retailer? And then sell raw materials to a processor? Want to change something, start there.

[Rareearth]

Agriculture is a economic driver and base industry in Canada. It is a trategic asset that cannot and should not be compromised( ask the allies from the wars or currently India, and the other importing Nations). It really is and should be maintained as a national priority and responsibility, as most other countries do.

Everything is a cycle, Times in agriculture have generally been favourable in Canada say the last 30 years

It feels like the world will over produce all commodities, at a lower and lower cost of production. With Canada having a higher fixed cost for production, where will this leave agriculture?

Imposing taxation, levies, and imposing higher costs ( seed tax) might seem ok and the honourable thing to do but it’s not a level playing field ( currency included) governments and side deals where Ag might be sacrificed for other national good ( foreign or domestic, like usa crop export war with China for business and technology interests)

It’s easy to give in, compromise, negotiate, when times are good, adding risk and costs into the system for what advantage again?

The focus should be on physical infrastructure, not grain storage like the government build in the past due to excess crop production and below cost of production economics.

I don’t believe Canada will or can have production gains ( crop yields) that will maintain competitiveness this will only work if costs can be driven out of the system at the same time.

[Quadtrack]

If this seed tax makes it through, are you willing to continue to contribute to the different commodity groups? Some of those check off dollars already go to R&D into seed varieties. Why should I have to pay twice?

SaskWheat, $1.00/t
SaskCanola, $0.75/t
SaskFlax, $2.36/t
SaskBarley, $1.06/t
SaskPulse, .67% of gross sales...non refundable.

What does it add up to on your farm on an average annual basis?

And now someone else wants access to my wallet without my consent!

I have NEVER asked for a refund but I just might this coming August. I have already compiled the list, deadlines, and how to access the forms.

I am so tired of being taken for granted!

We, in the Slum of the Ghetto, will be paying approximately $3500 in check-offs for our modest(small) sized farm....of which nearly a third is Saskpulse's non-refundable portion.

Edit in...this farm also pays income taxes(if Gov wants to claim they are supporting Ag R&D) and the RR freight overcharges get funneled to WGRF. Where is the CGC surplus going to end up?

So for about $1k/yr the SK Pulse levy has been providing your farm with arguably the best pea and lentil genetics in the world royalty free, plus various other services like market access, transportation work, market development and so on.
Appears to be a good deal. How much would a $4/tonne EPR add up to? With no guarantee of providing anything.
The pulse levy is manditory so that everyone that grows the varieties, which is basically everyone, contributes to the cost of them. Simple.
Raising existing levy some and keeping the current system is certainly worth considering imo.

[MBgrower]

Because the farmer is the end of buying retail where the product becomes wholesale again. It's why we "can't pass on our costs" because we are the end of the line. It was carefully designed that way.

Haven't you ever wondered why you buy crop inputs from a retailer? And then sell raw materials to a processor? Want to change something, start there.

"..Haven't you ever wondered why you buy crop inputs from a retailer?".

the answer to this is yes, and its nuts, we sell on wholesale, but inputs bought at retail, including all the costs for their radio and tv advertising. What other industry advertises their inputs to the mass media to reach 1-2% of the audience? way, way too many leaches in our industry.

[farmaholic]

Quad, are you willing to do both? I am on the record as saying the SaskPulse levy is a good investment, even when others were slamming it. I even gave them a bouquet for reducing the mandatory nonrefundable levy. And some of those levy dollars are already funding R&D in seed varieties. Personally I feel it's been a pretty good deal, but some "mandatory" duplication is being proposed with the seed tax.

I am trying to make a point here. And if anyone thinks end point royalties will stay at about a buck a tonne is delusional. So start multiplying up what this proposal is going to cost you.

[farmaholic]

Rareearth, maybe its time for someone else in the Industry to trim some fat, get lean and mean, and tighten their belts instead of maintaining their status quo and continually passing increased costs down to the Primary Producer.

I personally believe there are way too many people sucking on the Ag tit that create no value or don't earn their keep/compensation/salary.

I like wiseguy's sarcastic twist on the slogan "Ag More Than Ever".
To something like "Taking Money From Ag More Than Ever".

[jazz]

I am trying to make a point here. And if anyone thinks end point royalties will stay at about a buck a tonne is delusional. So start multiplying up what this proposal is going to cost you.

The cost is one thing, what is the benefit. What are the traits that consumers are apparently begging for that we aren't providing now? I know this will be a 2% or whatever higher yield against check game again and then deregister when every one learns how to grow it, then jack the royalty every couple yrs.

[seldomseen]

I can see the point you are making Farma. When we buy cert. seed we pay a huge price then all the check off money now more with end point. At some point there is nothing left!
Cert. No 1 wheat seed can be very poor quality at times and we still pay big money for it but I guess what is important is that everyone in the seed industry is wealthy.

[Oliver88]

Good points made by quad track, farmaholic, seldomseen. 👍🏻

As much as the seed companies want you to believe, there is clearly no appetite for a $4/tonne seed tax/EPR or trailing royalty. If this was imposed levies for the commodity groups would be eliminated.
Good to see the commodity groups deem both seed tax options as not good options.

[Quadtrack]

Quad, are you willing to do both? I am on the record as saying the SaskPulse levy is a good investment, even when others were slamming it. I even gave them a bouquet for reducing the mandatory nonrefundable levy. And some of those levy dollars are already funding R&D in seed varieties. Personally I feel it's been a pretty good deal, but some "mandatory" duplication is being proposed with the seed tax.

I am trying to make a point here. And if anyone thinks end point royalties will stay at about a buck a tonne is delusional. So start multiplying up what this proposal is going to cost you.

I get your point and I don’t know about paying both. I have seen some of the work (other than plant breeding) that the pulse levy enables, and I strongly believe it brings us good value. But if an epr or trailing royalty comes in, it will be more than our total levy is now, guaranteed and there is only so much we can afford to pay...
I agree w your assessment that additional seed royalties will cause many producers to want checkoff refunds. I think that would be detrimental to our industry as the commissions do some good work despite what many on agriville have said from time to time.
I am not afraid of paying my share for variety development. I believe we need a system that leaves some say of how much $ in the hands of farmer elected representatives. Otherwise, seed companies will ratchet royalties up to the market will bear, and our current commission structure will collapse.