Seed Synergy... what does our Canadian seed system.. need to do?

[furrowtickler]

You bet seed growers brown bag !

They also sell diseased seed or seed that doesn't germinate !

Some of the worst seed is the seed that gets sold to Farmers !

Sorry wiseguy ... that’s simply not true .
There are many seed growers in my area, and this statement of yours is no different than the b/S from some that we all doused our crops in glyphosate, or we all just throw massive amounts of N fertilizer around to kill the climate ... exaggeration to hurt others business... that borders on defamation..... there is no need to over exaggerate what is most likely very isolated incidents .
This is part of the negative issue with this Ag site that is disturbing.
Let’s have discussions, we will never all agree but let’s not intentionally try to crucify each other ... especially those of us who actually farm here and try to raise a family .

[bucket]

Have heard 2 plausible theories:
1- There was never any Triffid to begin with it was just a made up issue to see what reaction would be and how hard it would be to flush an entire system to get rid of old stock and bring in all new. Fast forward PBR UPOV91 and what we are facing today.

2 - We know that only a few seed growers had access to Triffid in the first place and they were growers that would give seed industry and maybe some producer groups a bad name if they were held accountable so cover up implemented.

On another note end of this month is when Grain Companies have to have CNHR flushed out as CWRS. I wonder if it is all gone and accounted for. Will there be a full 3rd party audit of whole system?

There is only CNHR on the prairies. ...it's all exported as CWRS. ..and they gave a little more time to blend it all off...

Tiffid was a result of irresponsible seed growers......keeping seed to sell as common in a pinch....

It was supposed to have been all flushed out prior to the issue's a few years later....someone didn't and then the breeders ****ed it up as well. ...but they sent the bill to farmers ....since it was so easy ....why not a seed tax....

[TOM4CWB]

Waltern,
Breeder seed are distributed directly from plant breeders; through seed co's that own[are responsible for] a specific variety. Select seed growers [who go through 5 years of CFIA oversight or 'probation' seed production...to earn this Select grower status]
Select seed growers can then multiply the bag of breeder seed to a maximum further 4 select generations...
....or demote any time to foundation status when needed at any of these select generations..
then foundation status seed usually seeded to produce Registered status seed...
then registered seed results in certified seed...
At each generational level maintaining specified purity of the variety being produced for the stated generation of pedigreed seed being grown.
Seed stocks are issued a 'crop certificate' for each field grown each year... with field inspections for purity required by 3rd party crop inspectors checking each field each year.
The Canada Seeds Act regulates these regulations... administered by the CSGA...who issues the Crop Certificates... after crop field inspections are submitted and checked against regulated standards.
Seed stocks of any generation... with the permission of the Seed co... can be transferred to another CSGA seed grower.

Tom do you have to buy new seed every year or can you seed your own Certified Seed and then sell it's product as certified seed or seed it again and sell the next years production as Certified? Honestly don't know how the system works!

[TOM4CWB]

Walterm,
We had flax on our farm.. . directly from breeder seed... that tested positive for Triffid. Breeder seed that was contaminated... and therefore most varieties needed to be reconstituted from scratch.

Have heard 2 plausible theories:
1- There was never any Triffid to begin with it was just a made up issue to see what reaction would be and how hard it would be to flush an entire system to get rid of old stock and bring in all new. Fast forward PBR UPOV91 and what we are facing today.

2 - We know that only a few seed growers had access to Triffid in the first place and they were growers that would give seed industry and maybe some producer groups a bad name if they were held accountable so cover up implemented.

On another note end of this month is when Grain Companies have to have CNHR flushed out as CWRS. I wonder if it is all gone and accounted for. Will there be a full 3rd party audit of whole system?

[jcv]

Somebody commented that quality is no better? The government went to a different system for evaluating varieties, and many did not have the quality we assumed.
Brandon wheat is a variety that was not tested thru the new "older" more expensive system, and may not have the qualities of CWRS. If we grow CWRS, varieties will need to change to meet the quality aspects of the variety. Maybe we shouldn't grow CWRS, but CNHR or other similar varieties, if quality is not a factor.

[sawfly1]

Like others have said , seed growers are not the problem.
They are just the mouthpiece for the industry.
We have seen what has happened
With Canola.
So we know where this is going.

Eventually you will be stuck with
Limited choices ,
You will not be able treat seed
Yourself . Safety reasons . Of course.

Then you can not buy the seed
Without treatment. Because that is all that they sell.

Pretty easy to see what is ahead.
Turn 10$ wheat seed cost into 30-40$ or more . All crops peas etc.80$/acre

It does not happen instantly.
That is too big a shock and they have to eliminate the other choices first.

Their intentions are pretty clear in that the variety owners can pull the registration at any time.
And use agreement s prohibit
Holding on to varieties.

It is not instant. You have to run the others out of town first.
Public and pulse growers breeding gone in 10 years

[bucket]

The good news is TOM4HISMASTERS has admitted where the triffid flax issues came from....

The same guys that have been lobbying for years for a seed tax....


It won't matter quality or variety in our wheat market when the same people **** it up again....

Every variety of flax was affected by TRIFFID.

Every variety of wheat will be affected with an outbreak of roundup ready wheat.....it's been here and supposedly cleaned out for years...but still shows up ....

Will those responsible ever be held accountable....nope....just pay for seed and a seed tax as well...

[TOM4CWB]

JVC, When AC Barrie was registered some 30 years ago... it was on the high side for gluten strength of the CWB/CGC GRL assessments for functionality that was needed by bakers for mechanized bread production.
The ability to use other baking additives, also the more prevalent use of US type baking bread making machinery... along with the functionality of CWRS being widely used to strengthen gluten properties of weaker gluten wheat from the general global wheat production... plus..... the change in grain handling as high throughput interior terminals have become widespread with grain blending before loading ships at port position...
All mean older low gluten strength CWRS qualifying varieties like Nepawa and Laura... do not meet the needs of many end users in the baking/breadmaking sector. The CGC grain research laboratory has consistently been used to check the functionality of CWRS during the development of all CWRS varieties,,, and if you look on the CGC 'Grains Canada web site... you can see that Brandon meets the 'new' target for CWRS gluten strength... where varieties like Redwater and Harvest are being reclassified. Aussie milling wheat... and US DNS spring wheat in particular... which US Minneapolis futures uses as the standard... has meant that Canadian CWRS traded at a discount to DNS from the US... because our Canadian CWRS had on average lower gluten strength. The recent CGC reclassifications of our western Canadian CWRS varieties... have been done to bring our CWRS quality into alignment with DNS from US sources. BTW... in 2010 I got CWB export licenses for CWExtra Strong... and Columbia Grain was happy to pay DNS premium prices... for the higher gluten strength wheats we grew. Columbia Grain was blending wheat for specific millers and bakers... delivering exact specifications for direct hit delivery to end users. Now Canadian grain buying/handlers... are involved often more directly in this manner also... as premiums can be procured at times by providing specific end use specifications.
Therefore saying Brandon is substandard quality... is somewhat misleading... as it truly depends on the end users grist requirements... and those quality specifications can vary considerably especially if CWRS is used for upgrading lower quality wheat in the bakers grist to meet specific targets.

Somebody commented that quality is no better? The government went to a different system for evaluating varieties, and many did not have the quality we assumed.
Brandon wheat is a variety that was not tested thru the new "older" more expensive system, and may not have the qualities of CWRS. If we grow CWRS, varieties will need to change to meet the quality aspects of the variety. Maybe we shouldn't grow CWRS, but CNHR or other similar varieties, if quality is not a factor.

[TOM4CWB]

Bucket,
Not every Canadian flax variety was contaminated at the Breeder seed level. CDC Saskatoon... where Triffid was developed.. was the primary contamination point in the breeder seed stocks.. although some Ag Canada varieties needed to be reconstituted as well. Sweeping generalizations... may be your preferred communication method... yet this is an inaccurate way to describe a very exacting science... that of plant breeding. Cheers Tom

The good news is TOM4HISMASTERS has admitted where the triffid flax issues came from....

The same guys that have been lobbying for years for a seed tax....


It won't matter quality or variety in our wheat market when the same people **** it up again....

Every variety of flax was affected by TRIFFID.

Every variety of wheat will be affected with an outbreak of roundup ready wheat.....it's been here and supposedly cleaned out for years...but still shows up ....

Will those responsible ever be held accountable....nope....just pay for seed and a seed tax as well...

[Guest]

Bucket,
Not every Canadian flax variety was contaminated at the Breeder seed level. CDC Saskatoon... where Triffid was developed.. was the primary contamination point in the breeder seed stocks.. although some Ag Canada varieties needed to be reconstituted as well. Sweeping generalizations... may be your preferred communication method... yet this is an inaccurate way to describe a very exacting science... that of plant breeding. Cheers Tom

why was triffid ever developed?
who wanted it ?
why did they want it ?

[bucket]

Bucket,
Not every Canadian flax variety was contaminated at the Breeder seed level. CDC Saskatoon... where Triffid was developed.. was the primary contamination point in the breeder seed stocks.. although some Ag Canada varieties needed to be reconstituted as well. Sweeping generalizations... may be your preferred communication method... yet this is an inaccurate way to describe a very exacting science... that of plant breeding. Cheers Tom

TOM4BEING STUPID

Every variety lost market share and every flax variety had to be tested before it could be sold....the European premium has been gone and filled by the FSU....


Keep denying the facts ...your masters have trained you well....must have got a lot of paper bags full of cash to sell out your neighbours the way you have....

[foragefarmer]

Tom4$4Tom

"US DNS spring wheat in particular... which US Minneapolis futures uses as the standard... has meant that Canadian CWRS traded at a discount to DNS from the US... because our Canadian CWRS had on average lower gluten strength"

It seems China made the big complaint to GIGI in 2013. Now 29 varieties of CWRS have been moved to CNHR. It's plain to see what's happening here. Limit the amount of varieties in the CWRS class in order that the one controlling the seed can charge what they want for the seed and the royalties.

The other thing that will happen is CNHR will eventually be discounted to CWRS, which in turn will force farmers to move planting acres to varieties of CWRS . Playing right in to the hands of the Seed companies controlling the seed

Very interesting the chart below showing where China fits in to importing wheat and how they have declined by 44.7%. They aren't that big of player as they once were. Another thing, the 29 varieties of CWRS were more than adequate to make flat breads and noodles which the majority of buyers on the list live on.

This in no way is going to be a benefit to prairie farmers in the pocket books as you are claiming!


Below are the 15 countries that imported the highest dollar value worth of wheat during 2017:
Indonesia: US$3.6 billion (8.7% of total wheat imports)
Egypt: $2.6 billion (6.3%)
Algeria: $1.8 billion (4.3%)
Italy: $1.7 billion (4.1%)
Japan: $1.5 billion (3.7%)
Nigeria: $1.24 billion (3%)
Bangladesh: $1.22 billion (3%)
Philippines: $1.22 billion (3%)
Spain: $1.2 billion (3%)
Brazil: $1.15 billion (2.8%)
Mexico: $1.09 billion (2.6%)
Turkey: $1.04 billion (2.5%)
China: $1.03 billion (2.5%)
Netherlands: $1.02 billion (2.5%)
Vietnam: $965.6 million (2.3%)

Those countries that posted declines in their imported wheat purchases were led by: Brazil (down -52.4%), China (down -44.7%), Japan (down -32.9%) and Mexico (down -19.9%).

[Guest]

the reason they are deregistered is so new expensive brands that are no better can be sold
same reason old canolas have been deregistered, all about bleeding the farmer dry
someone made a comment on here about why farmers are considered end users ?
this wasn't addressed but a really good point
just charge the seed tax to "real" end users like japan , Italy , etc. , see how that works out ?

[TOM4CWB]

caseih
CDC Saskatoon developed Triffid flax to use products like Refine Extra... for new flax herbicide options... and soil carry over tolerance. As with Roundup Ready wheat... to get the tolerance events approved in Europe became increasingly difficult and unlikely... even though US approval for Triffid was completed... it was decided to wind the Triffid variety down... and eliminate it from the Canadian system... rather than fight the EU.

why was triffid ever developed?
who wanted it ?
why did they want it ?

[walterm]

caseih
CDC Saskatoon developed Triffid flax to use products like Refine Extra... for new flax herbicide options... and soil carry over tolerance. As with Roundup Ready wheat... to get the tolerance events approved in Europe became increasingly difficult and unlikely... even though US approval for Triffid was completed... it was decided to wind the Triffid variety down... and eliminate it from the Canadian system... rather than fight the EU.

Wonder how much was spent on R&D and development on something that wasn't wanted and only ended up costing the industry?
How are we guaranteed that this won't happen again? Already had scare with RR wheat.

Seems like every change in the whole industry the last few years comes with no accountability or monitoring and ends up costing farmers money that no one can figure out how to give back to farmers. Self regulation isn't working....