Seed Synergy... what does our Canadian seed system.. need to do?

[Guest]

Wonder how much was spent on R&D and development on something that wasn't wanted and only ended up costing the industry?
How are we guaranteed that this won't happen again? Already had scare with RR wheat.

Seems like every change in the whole industry the last few years comes with no accountability or monitoring and ends up costing farmers money that no one can figure out how to give back to farmers. Self regulation isn't working....

start our own seed genetic company , then we can put the "money that they don't know how to give back to farmers" in there
don't ever think you have saw the last of rr wheat , it's another tool in their box and they will use it
found it growing in a ditch , do they really think we are that stupid ?

[walterm]

How many seed breeders are we trying to support? Aren't they all competing against each other to reach the same goals? Seems like financing a lot of duplication.

[TOM4CWB]

Bucket... and many other grain farmers posting here... seem to misunderstand... the impact of increasing royalties through trailing royalty collection;

Because seed growers KEEP none of the seed royalties
[seed growers collect and submit 100% of the seed royalties NOW... OR FROM ANY ADDED FUTURE projected ROYALTIES to be possibly COLLECTED FROM GRAIN FARMERS from future seed purchases ] ..

Trailing royalty contracts only increases the risk TO PEDIGREED SEED PRODUCTION; risking reduced future pedigreed seed demand;
RISK that commercial grain growers won't buy new; OR EVEN OLDER PEDIGREED genetics... especially in cereals;

As administrative costs have grown... ON OUR pedigreed seed PRODUCTION...
the costs of pedigreed seed have over doubled...
future pedigreed seed sales are more at risk of reducing total certified seed sales throughout western Canada... seed growers need to reduce the cost of pedigreed seed... NOT SEE COSTS OF PEDIGREED SEED INCREASE TO COMMERCIAL FARMERS;
As PBR and UPOV 78 and 91 cover the vast majority of seeds... common seed sales are not legal... and not an option for most seed growers.

Upon reflection... a few thoughts for discussion;

1. we Do have a heritage of sharing and caring for Seed provision to Canadian grain farming. The 700 member owners of Secan... which is a non-profit seed group... that has unrestricted membership by any Canadian farmer who needs clear transparent access to quality seeds.... is a good start to assure we move in a direction that seeks a profitable outcome for all Canadian commercial farmers... who grow grain especially in Western Canada.

2. There are approximately 3500 seed [farmer]growers [CSGA members yearly registering] ...in Canada... the vast number of which desire a competitive efficient transparent Canadian seed system that produces best quality grain for global endusers who must provide high quality food tor a world that demands safe, nutritious food.
3. We need to focus on... growing our strong assets... and be better equipped to provide future farmers better seeds for higher quality nutritious foods... that consumers need.
Cheers!

[grassfarmer]

Bucket... and many other grain farmers posting here... seem to misunderstand... the impact of increasing royalties through trailing royalty collection;

Because seed growers KEEP none of the seed royalties
[seed growers collect and submit 100% of the seed royalties NOW... OR FROM ANY ADDED FUTURE projected ROYALTIES to be possibly COLLECTED FROM GRAIN FARMERS from future seed purchases ] ..

Trailing royalty contracts only increases the risk TO PEDIGREED SEED PRODUCTION; risking reduced future pedigreed seed demand;
RISK that commercial grain growers won't buy new; OR EVEN OLDER PEDIGREED genetics... especially in cereals;

As administrative costs have grown... ON OUR pedigreed seed PRODUCTION...
the costs of pedigreed seed have over doubled...
future pedigreed seed sales are more at risk of reducing total certified seed sales throughout western Canada... seed growers need to reduce the cost of pedigreed seed... NOT SEE COSTS OF PEDIGREED SEED INCREASE TO COMMERCIAL FARMERS;
As PBR and UPOV 78 and 91 cover the vast majority of seeds... common seed sales are not legal... and not an option for most seed growers.

So you're against increased royalties being introduced then?

[bucket]

So you're against increased royalties being introduced then?

He can't say that....his masters would go crazy.....

If we need more yield and better quality.....the ****ing dummies at the government better start telling the graincos and railways to speed up infrastructure spending because more bins on my farm won't solve the problem....

[TOM4CWB]

Grass farmer,
The plant breeders... and seed co's get the royalties from the individual varieties..The CSGA [or its CSGA membership as seed growers] get NONE of the royalty funds collected for plant breeders and seed co's.
As My seed farm's production... gets none of the royalties... As our farm only pays royalties on the seed we plant each year.... I am in the same boat as you or any other grain farmer in western Canada.
However... if in fact... new cereal varieties are more productive... and truly meet the needs to better create value for end users/consumers... so we all may share in a truly larger 'pie' as they say... then at that point I would share with others... for the greater gain we all [grain farmers, elevator co's, endusers]could achieve.

So you're against increased royalties being introduced then?

[bucket]

Grass farmer,
The plant breeders... and seed co's get the royalties from the individual varieties..The CSGA [or its CSGA membership as seed growers] get NONE of the royalty funds collected for plant breeders and seed co's.
As My seed farm's production... gets none of the royalties... As our farm only pays royalties on the seed we plant each year.... I am in the same boat as you or any other grain farmer in western Canada.
However... if in fact... new cereal varieties are more productive... and truly meet the needs to better create value for end users/consumers... so we all may share in a truly larger 'pie' as they say... then at that point I would share with others... for the greater gain we all [grain farmers, elevator co's, endusers]could achieve.

But you sell your certified seed for a minimum of 2 times market value and its indexed and usually with minimum prices...

Farmers growing 60 bushels at 5 bucks make the same as a farmer growing 50 bushels at 6 bucks....

The gross revenue per acre is the same but the costs are higher with the 60 bpa crop...

Not sure why everyone is chasing higher yields....without higher prices....quality means nothing anymore...forget the past ...

[TOM4CWB]

Bucket,
There is and has been a massive increase in infrastructure spending for grain handling and rail capacity in Alberta and western SK. Oil on rail has helped. New Canola crushing plant. G3 at Morinville now. P
&H at Viking as well as Paterson at Daysland... on top of Providence, Viterra, Cargill and Richardsons.

He can't say that....his masters would go crazy.....

If we need more yield and better quality.....the ****ing dummies at the government better start telling the graincos and railways to speed up infrastructure spending because more bins on my farm won't solve the problem....

[bucket]

Bucket,
There is and has been a massive increase in infrastructure spending for grain handling and rail capacity in Alberta and western SK. Oil on rail has helped. New Canola crushing plant. G3 at Morinville now. P
&H at Viking as well as Paterson at Daysland... on top of Providence, Viterra, Cargill and Richardsons.

Well **** TOM4BEINGADUMBASS ....I will just fire up the super Bs and just haul to the west side of Saskatchewan and past 6 or more good terminals and one closed 10000 tonne concrete elevator just 12 miles from my farm...

BTW that new infrastructure came with government assistance in one form or another...

[blackpowder]

Excuse us for your geographic location bucket. Please explain where Paterson received govt money.
Maybe the railroads getting paid to service certain areas different I dunno.
And if you'd like to join us, please have $5000+ an acre to spend.

[TOM4CWB]

Bucket,
You are incorrect on seed value we collect. $1.50/bu royalty, $1.00 volume discount for large seed purchases off season, or wholesale revenues.. $2 off... plus administrative overhead... and cleaning... if we receive $2/bu over commercial grain price... it is the exception... not the norm. Selling 5000 bu of stock seed... on an average commercial farm gross revenue of close to $2M... is a very small percentage... as I explained before.

But you sell your certified seed for a minimum of 2 times market value and its indexed and usually with minimum prices...

Farmers growing 60 bushels at 5 bucks make the same as a farmer growing 50 bushels at 6 bucks....

The gross revenue per acre is the same but the costs are higher with the 60 bpa crop...

Not sure why everyone is chasing higher yields....without higher prices....quality means nothing anymore...forget the past ...

[bucket]

Excuse us for your geographic location bucket. Please explain where Paterson received govt money.

Well interestingly enough ...when in Saskatoon and talking to government people they made mention that government put 300 million into west coast port infrastructure....

As I said there is government money in one form or another...it might not be at that location but it may be in the system....


Sorry I didn't clarify that better...

[farmaholic]

Royalty proponents, I think alot of people are afraid of how this is going to evolve or what it will morph into.

Thomas, I think most people realize the Royalties don't stay with the pedigreed seed growers.

But also please don't try and convince us there is no premium for growing seed, and we know there are extra associated costs over and above commodity(food) grain production.

What if it looks like the canola seed market in a decade? Farm saved seed wheat helps keep costs down and gives us a better chance to be pprofitable.

What happens if extra costs associated with the use of farm saved seed become so great that it wouldn't pay to seed bin run.....enter seed growers.

If "only" a dollar a tonne is collected initially.....where is it going to end?
30 million tonnes per year....at 5 bucks a tonne,,,,150 million year in year out out of Producer's pockets, how much will be directed to R&D and how much to Co's bottom line profit?

What do we need? Fusarium RESISTANCE, nitrogen fixing ability, Bi/perennial wheat, how is any gene altered wheat going to be accepted, herbicide resistance, better agronomic packages in the varieties.

I don't know if we need more bushels.

Shouldn't the whole Industry pay for the perceived benefits, not one group paying and the rest benefiting from being able to handle more or extract more money for better quality or maybe even sell us more junk to produce the crop.

I don't think the system was broken so why are we "fixing" it.....and for who?

[Wink73]

Regardless of all the hardships in the seed industry from the breeder to the seed grower ....... the end result will be as an example ...
2000 ac wheat seed cost from $14 / ac to $35 .

That’s an extra $42,000 cost for an average grower with 2000 ac of wheat .
It does not matter how Tom splits that out into seed growers , breeders or the many other leach’s in between, that money is still going to come out of primary producers pockets . And the numbers will be at least that . No different than what happened in the canola seed Industry. It exploded from $2/lb to $15 in a relatively short time .
I am not here to bash seed growers at all , I am just stating that guys like Tom refuse to admit that this is going to cost primary producers a lot of money . He just spent the past 2 weeks making every excuse known in The industry to deflect attention to the fact stated above .
That’s the aggravation of it all ..
no different than the supporters of the carbon tax ...... just admit that it’s going to cost us all a lot of money we don’t have .
Growing more bushels to cover these costs is getting us nowhere but every one else in the Ag industry more money .
Then throw in Mother Nature in where we are at complete mercy of in terms yields ... not fancy seed , fertilizers or any other input or extra wealth transfer costs .
That is why most of us are saying ... enough already !!

Bingo Furrow.👍🏻👍🏻 Very good comments above too Farmaholic. 👆🏻

[Braveheart]

I have been talking to guys around about end point royalties. No one is planning on being in a position to pay them. Most are securing a CNHR variety (prosper in these cases) and cleaning. As little pedigreed seed as possible would be used. One guy is going to import a US variety, keep cleaning and reseeding, and will sell his production in the US.

The seed cos may have screwed themselves royalty, I mean royally.