Alberta separation

[Blaithin]

The posts also include more than “just some difficulties”

Separating complete removes the ability for Alberta to export pretty much all our resources unless we are exporting to Canada or America. That is more than a difficulty. The blind assumption it would be easily navigated and either of those nations would happily allow us to export through them is a poor foundation to a separatist claim.

Why would either allow us to export through them? By cutting off all other markets, we have nobody to buy our resources. They can now purchase them at whatever they want to pay because we don’t really have another choice.

Or a deal is set up and we pay to export via them. Now a portion of what we would make on our resources is no longer our profit, it’s there’s. Or we market our resources at a lower cost because buyers need to get them through either Canada or America.

What is your answer for those scenarios ajl? Because “it will work out, it will just be a challenge at first” is not an answer. How do you actually see exports working.

[ajl]

BC is perpetually hostile to Alberta's interests. I do not expect that to change with separation as the main motivator for the hate is envy. However, AB can and will put overwhelming pressure on BC due to the fact that they are dependent on us. They need Alberta petroleum products and they need the carbon tax they collect off us. We can disrupt shipments just as well as the ROC. Good relations with the US would help with competitive pressure on the ROC so they would do well to cooperate with the Alberta nation.

[Blaithin]

Alberta has some bargaining chips when it comes to transporting through Alberta to get to western ports or to get imports in from western ports.

I’m not at all confident that’s enough chips to bargain with considering how much Alberta would need in return.

As for the carbon tax… once upon a time that was a provincial tax that benefited Alberta and had little to no impact on anyone else, BC included. It was people’s rabid hate of the tax in any form that got it moved to a federal level for BC to access.

The US has no real reason to have good relations with us. They want our oil but realistically they can get that no matter what. Who else is going to buy it?

Then there’s all the tariff complications that have been happening recently. Anything even just passing through American ports has been a victim of them. Putting all our export eggs into that basket isn’t ideal.

[agstar77]

Alberta would prefer the U.S. outcomes? They would save paying out pension although Healthcare might cost more.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Should things be changed? Absolutely.

How do you propose things can be changed for the better in a country where all of the power and votes reside outside of the region that needs the change?

[sumdumguy]

It really bugs me that Moe doesn’t pitch in behind Danielle. He’s a schill too.

[Blaithin]

How do you propose things can be changed for the better in a country where all of the power and votes reside outside of the region that needs the change?

Getting someone in that actually follows through with electoral reform would be a start.

It’s delusional to think Alberta separating would remove the obstacles of a split vote. Look at provincial elections, the urban demographic is right there in Alberta as well, it’s not as simple as East vs West. At heart it is Urban vs Rural and Alberta has fallen on the urban side of the vote before.

The idea that we would separate and be happily conservative and a majority isn’t realistic. We would separate and then be a federal NDP state.

[Landdownunder]

What an interesting topic and view points.
In australia it happens to lesser degree but West Aust biggest wealth earner in Australia export wise grain and minerals think I read somewhere they "produce" all most 70% of Australia's GST income yes thats not worded well but then its redistributed amongst states, all gst is gets put in big bucket and shared out but not equally.
TAS population was 550,000 and WA bit over 3 million, and GDP Tasmania 40 bill WA about 465 bill and yet WA gets 8% of govt get redistribution and Tas get 4% not quite equitable.
PS these figures could be wrong off top of my head rough but ya get the trend.
WA residents often wish they could be there own country geographically possible to.
You guys can pick figures apart dont care there not gospel and maybe not correct.

[chuckChuck]

Alberta has always had a more American Republican influenced individualism first perspective.

Its about about self interest first and whats good for community and society come a distant second.

That's why for example they don't care if many people don't have healthcare or insurance in the US. Its not their problem.

Or why they think infectious diseases and vaccines should be left up to the individual to decide what to do.

They somehow wrongly think that they made it on their own and have no responsibility to the community around them.

The rural vote is less educated and conservative in its' world view.

They are often traditional in social views and keep doing things and thinking like their parents and grand parents. And they are easily offended if you don't agree with them or share their values.

They are more often dependent on jobs in agriculture and resource extraction. Both of which have dramatically reduced employment over the decades.

They are threatened by social and economic change.

[blackpowder]

1).
Seperation talk although warranted, takes oxygen from an autonomy discussion and is implausible.

2).
Chuck believes an audience of zero is meaningful. Validating our previous assumptions.