What if ‘Axe the Tax’ leaves most Canadians worse off?

[furrowtickler]

Enviro - Shaming ….. look at COP28 …. It’s ridiculous already as they all fly there on fossil fueled private jets
when are people going to say enough of this ???

[fjlip]

Hey brain dead Libtards....is the $ wasted/borrowed enough yet?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Renewable natural gas plant being built near Calgary. Non food grade waste is the feedstock. Also producing climate friendly cow feed
As per the article, the output is only 10 times more expensive than actual natural gas.
But it will be economical as long as CO2 taxes continue to go much higher.
Sounds like an excellent sustainable business model.
This cost ratio, and reliance on government policy and subsidies from actual industries is common to all green scams.

Biofuel plants are also expensive to build — and the cost of producing RNG is significantly higher than normal methods. Producing natural gas costs about $3 to $4 per Metric Million British thermal units (MMBtu), whereas it’s around $30 per MMBtu for RNG.
But projects like Future Energy Park are made viable through emissions-reduction regulations such as Canada’s Clean Fuel Standards or the industrial carbon tax, said Bernie Roth, partner at Dentons Canada LLP, with a focus on energy regulation.

“At the end of the day, most of this activity is being supported by government policy,” he said.

Roth said biofuel plants need certainty the cost of carbon will continue to rise — large emitters in Alberta currently pay $65 per tonne of CO2 and will hit $170/tonne by 2030

[url]https://calgaryherald.com/business/local-business/construction-of-1-2b-biofuels-plant-on-edge-of-southeast-calgary-slated-for-next-spring[/url]

[chuckChuck]

The Alberta and Saskatchewan oil and gas industries receive government subsidies and incentives.

And so do farmers.

But you A5 you seem only concerned about subsidies and support to renewable energy? LOL

Why is that?

[Hamloc]

Renewable natural gas plant being built near Calgary. Non food grade waste is the feedstock. Also producing climate friendly cow feed
As per the article, the output is only 10 times more expensive than actual natural gas.
But it will be economical as long as CO2 taxes continue to go much higher.
Sounds like an excellent sustainable business model.
This cost ratio, and reliance on government policy and subsidies from actual industries is common to all green scams.

Biofuel plants are also expensive to build — and the cost of producing RNG is significantly higher than normal methods. Producing natural gas costs about $3 to $4 per Metric Million British thermal units (MMBtu), whereas it’s around $30 per MMBtu for RNG.
But projects like Future Energy Park are made viable through emissions-reduction regulations such as Canada’s Clean Fuel Standards or the industrial carbon tax, said Bernie Roth, partner at Dentons Canada LLP, with a focus on energy regulation.

“At the end of the day, most of this activity is being supported by government policy,” he said.


Roth said biofuel plants need certainty the cost of carbon will continue to rise — large emitters in Alberta currently pay $65 per tonne of CO2 and will hit $170/tonne by 2030

[url]https://calgaryherald.com/business/local-business/construction-of-1-2b-biofuels-plant-on-edge-of-southeast-calgary-slated-for-next-spring[/url]

AB5, as you know we buy natural gas for heating in Alberta in gigajoules. A gigajoule is equivalent to 947817 BTU’s, so a little less than MMbtu. I payed $2.88 a gigajoule for natural gas on my last bill. This plant’s cost of production is just $28.43 a gigajoule. Roughly 10 times market price. This is absolutely ridiculous!!! Chuck2 is this the level of subsidization required for all brain dead green schemes?!?! Just like EV’s, subsidized by government but still more expensive!

[chuckChuck]

Says the farmers who receive a significant subsidy "premium" for some crops because a large percentage of north american corn, soybean, canola are used in biofuels!

But they don't dare complain about the subsidies to the grain based biofuel industries!

And when the subsidies to the oil and gas industries come up they go silent and run away with their tails between their legs!

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I see a math problem with Chuck's anaylsis.
According to Chuck so far this morning:
The oil and gas industry runs on subsidies.
Anyone who pays CO2 tax is subsidized and gets more back than they pay.
Farmers are subsidized.
And according to those building the RNG plant, they are subsidized by the oil and gas industry who are paying CO2 taxes. Subsidized enough that they can be profitable making a product at 10 times the cost of the gas companies who are subsidizing them, while those gas companies are themselves heavily subsidized according to Chuck.

So it looks like, according to Chuck, everyone is subsidizing everyone else. Therefore there is no limit to how unprofitable any green scheme is, because there is unlimited other peoples money to just subsidize anything at all.


This reminds me of your ridiculous claims that the entire world is warming twice as fast as the entire rest of the world.

Do you have to prove that you failed elementary mathematics to get a membership to the NFU or NDP? Or is it implicit in the fact that you are applying in the first place?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

AB5, as you know we buy natural gas for heating in Alberta in gigajoules. A gigajoule is equivalent to 947817 BTU’s, so a little less than MMbtu. I payed $2.88 a gigajoule for natural gas on my last bill. This plant’s cost of production is just $28.43 a gigajoule. Roughly 10 times market price. This is absolutely ridiculous!!! Chuck2 is this the level of subsidization required for all brain dead green schemes?!?! Just like EV’s, subsidized by government but still more expensive!

It is actually much worse than that. You are comparing retail vs wholesale.

From the numbers I have seen, this is the level of subsidization that is common across the green scams.
As oneoff used to say, you can even make a pig fly if you put enough HP behind it.
What happens when the entire economy is trying to run off of highly subsidized green scams? Where does the subsidy money come from?

[Hamloc]

Says the farmers who receive a significant subsidy "premium" for some crops because a large percentage of north american corn, soybean, canola are used in biofuels!

But they don't dare complain about the subsidies to the grain based biofuel industries!

And when the subsidies to the oil and gas industries come up they go silent and run away with their tails between their legs!

The ethanol blending subsidy in the USA amounts to a tax credit of 45 cents for every gallon of pure ethanol they blend with gasoline. Todays price for ethanol is $2.16 a gallon. So Chuck2 how does that compare to the renewable gas being produced by the proposed biofuel plant in Calgary where the RNG has a cost of production of $28.43 a gigajoule and a retail value of $2.88(present price)? Not even in the same ball game.

[chuckChuck]

How much ethanol is produced in North America vs the small biofuel from waste plant in Alberta? Do the math Hamloc.

And making biofuel and fertilizer from waste that might otherwise end up in the landfill has other benefits.