The plot thickens?

[cowman]

Good article in the local paper on the Income Trust scandal.
The basic thrust of the thing was this: The Liberal Party apparently has billions tied up in foundations that are perhaps a little shady. To divert attention from these foundations, that pay no tax Goodale started to muse that he might tax the Income Trusts in a different way. This caused a massive downgrading in the value of shares in these trusts. At that time the "inside money" bought in? When literally on the eve of the end of the Liberal government Goodale announced he would not tax the trusts the price skyrocketed? The smart money made a killing...whether from a leak or because they knew long in advance what was happening...like about the time Ralph drove the market down?
The resulting "scandal" took the heat off any desire to look at the Liberal foundations...as well as freed up massive amounts of money from the rising income trusts...money that moved into Liberal friendly hands!
It almost looks like a last ditch attempt to loot the country before the whole rotten house of cards caved in? Might allow the Liberal brass to flee the country before they have to face the music? Pretty typical in most tin pot dictatorships?

[cowman]

Anyone who might still think Ralph Goodale and Paul Martin are innocent babes in th e woods should check out:
www.stephentaylor.ca/
The evidence there would suggest these boys deserve a stay at a federal penitentiary!
Right honorable members of Parliment...yea right!

[farmers_son]

We are really looking at speculation with the income trusts. Any announcement Goodale may have made on taxing or not taxing trusts could be overturned by the next government.

I think you were more on the mark with earlier comments that it is wrong to be pursing this issue during an election. It not that the plot has thickened so much as the mud slinging has gotten worse. There are important issues to be discussed during this election but up to now the press only reports the scandals.

I would not presume to believe someone who calls themselves a Conservative Party pundit would be an unbiased source of accurate information. This Stephen Taylor is a failed Conservative candidate. But sometimes you can tell a lot about a party by the company it keeps. This Taylor comes across like a nasty vindictive type.

[FarmRanger]

Stephen Taylor is a Conservative Party of Canada pundit and he isn’t going to sugar coat Liberal scandals. Accuracy is different than vindictiveness. Nasty facts about the Liberals doesn’t mean the reporter of the facts is nasty.
I would argue that Liberal scandals ARE the biggest issue in this election, and they have been doing everything they can to sidetrack this issue. The way the income trust situation was handled was (as cowman described it) is the perfect scenario for someone on the inside. This scandal shouldn’t be ignored as it could possibly be the larger in dollar value of all the other scandals combined.

[silverback]

You never fail to amuse me f_s. If you are saying the opposition parties are to blame for the scandals you are out of touch with reality. Saying the truth is not mudslinging. When even the CBC gets into the act a little, it has to be the truth doesn't it??

Ask your liberal buddies if the attack ads they have made trying to scare people with pictures of guns and the conservative party are mudslinging or truth. I know what you will say.

[silverback]

Today the Prime minister is accusing the Conservatives of forcing low and middle income wage earners to pay back their tax cuts !!! That is the type of scare tactics that worked last election when the Liberals were fear mongering about Harper and private health care !

[cowman]

Both the Liberals and the Conservatives are questioning the costs of each others programs? Caught one news broadcast where the Liberals claim Conservative promises will put the government into fiscal deficit of $12 billion over five years? Conservatives responded that they would still have a surplus of $3 billion...now who is right?
How much is the so called federal surplus? Before the election even began Goodale and Martin announced tax cuts of $30 billion and since the election was called it seems everyday we have more promises of lavish spending and tax cuts? Where does this all end? Are these promises even possible? Something doesn't add up here?
However if you rooted out all the theft and utter waste perhaps it would be possible? If you could save billions by scrapping the gun registry how much could you save by scrapping a lot more of the dead weight, that seems to be designed for one reason only...transferring large amounts of tax payers money into criminals hands?
Paul Martin promised to add 1,000 new RCMP officers. I think Harper should keep that promise if he is elected? We're going to need the extra cops to round up all the Liberals that need to go to jail!

[cowman]

Not to mention more jails !!!! Edmonton has already had to homicides in 2006, so if that trend continues in all major cities and the Conservatives form the government look for major changes to the judicial system etc.
Don't forget that there will still be lots of income tax paid into federal coffers,and since obviously Martin, Cretien and crew have been collecting too much tax and have a surplus, even lowering taxes combined with increase in salaries due to cost of living etc. should see ample tax dollars finding their way to Ottawa to cover the cost of most of the campaign promises, and many of them both from the Liberals and Conservatives are phased in over a period of years.

[farmers_son]

I do not know if I would say the present government is collecting too much tax. The Canadian military is still under funded and while I note that the Conservatives have promised more funding for the military they gave that funding low priority and would not indicate that it would happen anytime soon.

However we need to know up front that if the Conservatives were to form the next government Canada would be a different kind of place. The Conservatives would see our country adopt economic policies that would be more like Margaret Thatcher’s Britain than anything we have ever seen before in Canada no matter which government was in power. Whether or not Stephen Harper would send troops to Iraq at this stage of that monumental mistake, the Conservatives remain sympathetic with Bush’s foreign policies and internationally Canada would look more like the United States than a kinder gentler Canada. Under the Conservatives Canada would be part of the U.S. star wars missile defense program. The Conservatives would support deep tax cuts and while no one likes paying taxes primary ag producers might want to wonder whether governments support will be there for them under a Conservative government.

Remember the Conservatives were the ones who stopped the Parliamentary committee looking at the packers books. Further federal support anticipated after the election for new generation coop packing plants would be cancelled by a Conservative government and the dream of producers moving up the value chain and receiving a fair return from the marketplace would be lost. As well as the tax reductions already announced, gone. And I think Canadians really need to consider who will benefit from a 1% reduction in the GST. It is true that someone earning under about $10,000 does not pay tax and does not benefit from the tax cuts the Liberals proposed but no one is mentioning that under the present structure the same person could quality for the maximum GST rebate of $920 which is more than they would have spent on GST if they spent every dollar they earned on GST taxable goods, which they wouldn’t. The Conservatives have not said what they are going to do with the GST rebate. Looks to me like this country’s poor would be worse off under a Conservative government. I do not think there is much doubt about that.

While the attention during the campaign has all been on Liberal scandals Canadians may wake up after January 23 and be surprised to find that they are being governed by a leader who is much more like U.S. televangelist Pat Robertson than the Conservative Johns, McDonald and Diefenbaker. Now that may be an individual’s choice and if so that is how they should vote. But they should know up front about what kind of Canada they are voting for. A Canada that would see Quebec have special status internationally. A Canada without the Canadian Wheat Board. A Canada without respect for minorities and a Canada that favours the rich and large corporations.

[silverback]

That is very funny f_s. How long does it take out of your day to dream up a pack of absolute lies and wrongheaded speculation like you just typed in there??

Pat Robertson? Come on - get real.

[silverback]

I hope that whomever forms the government will be allowed the chance to govern. I watched the entire debate this evening and surprisingly enough all the leaders made sense at one time or another. Layton scares the hell out of me, he is going to help everybody, which is very noble but he didn't tack a price on his platform nor did he indicate if he intends on lowering or raising taxes.

Martin got the most heat this evening from all parties, mainly from Layton and Duceppe.

I still think we are headed for likely a Conservative minority and will be back at the polls within 18 months....that is my prediction.

[sawfly]

the only good thing you can say about the liberals is we didn't go to iraq.

a conservative minority might be liveable except for the CWB being gone.

conservatives will be better when it comes to cash support of western farmers.

unfortunatly they will give chem seed companies even more power than mulroney did by tighting the noose of plant breeders rights

The US is tired of war for a while. so we wont have to worry about harper getting us mixed up in that.


gun regestry gone good

the tories should keep their right wing in check if they ever have any thoughts of reelection

[ivbinconned]

Don't be surprised if we get another Liebrano minority...only this time propped up by the Bloc...dispite all of Duceppe's spin which is for electoral puposes only!!

The bloc has traditionaly backed the Liebrano's in committee 90% of the time.

But if we get a "Thatcher " styled Conservative majority...BRING IT ON.

[farmers_son]

Silverback…Some advice if I may. It would be a lie if said I had 500 cows when I only had 100. It would be a lie if I said my wheat yielded 40 bushels per acres when it only yielded 25. It would be a lie if I told a sweet young thing I was single when I had a wife and children at home. What I typed and what you called lies is my opinion. There is a big difference.

I noted your reference to how long did I take to type up my post. Well no one has any doubt about how long it took you to come up with your post. I clearly recall it was a similar comment from you that gave grassfarmer reason to question why he bothered to contribute to these forums. If you have the impression that I put a great deal of time and thought into my posts I guess that is a compliment. You might consider doing some of the same.

Emrald1: I agree that all the leaders made some good points. Harper is the one that scares the hell out of me, so to each their own. At this point in the campaign I would say your analysis of the outcome is accurate. However no one should make any mistake about it, it will be a Conservative/Bloc coalition with the Bloc using their new found power to further their goals of separation. That will just fuel the baser sentiments of disenfranchised Canadians in and out of Quebec who think that is just fine.

Canadians may have to get used to minority governments as four major parties can easily split the available seats so no party will gain a majority of seats. I do not see this as positive for the country. If you look at the countries with the strongest performing economies none are typically governed by coalitions.

[cowman]

Farmers son: Being one of the "baser types" who hopes in my lifetime we will be free, I am fairly happy with how this election is going. Now mind you I think a Liberal majority might be just peachy too!
Occasionally I fall back into this ridiculous idea that maybe "Canada" can work? I see a possibility of a BLOC/west coalition working...and make no mistake that is what we are basically talking about with a Conservative minority? I suspect Duceppe and me are closer than me and Harper.
This is the last hurrah. Either the east buys the message or they don't? If central Canada thinks the status quoe of corruption and dirty government is going to work...then so be it. Watch the western seperatism and Quebec seperatism grow? That will be the time to get rid of this country and everyone go it alone? Looking forward to that day.