Getting religion

[silverback]

Smearing isn't just something that happens to federal politicians. Many good folks have gotten out of municipal politics because of the smear campaigns against them if they don't vote the way certain sectors of the public think they should.
I think that the federal government should set the bar extremely high in the calibre and conduct of politicians, beaurocrats etc., but it isn't happening. We all know that one rotten apple should not spoil the barrel but the rotten apples seem to outnumber the good ones by far in federal politics.

[FarmRanger]

You are right about politicians getting their character attacked, but don’t just think it’s the opposition parties who are responsible, f_s. If you are running as a Conservative, you’d better be prepared to be called names if you dare to take any kind of moral stand on an issue. Don’t even mention paying down the debt with good fiscal policy, as that is just double speak right wing hidden agenda (give me a break). If you want meaningful improvement to the health care system, you must be wanting American style health care. All the name calling that goes on in parliament, on BOTH sides, just shuts down debate of ideas, and we just get more of the same policies. Useful input isn’t allowed from anyone opposing any of the governments ideas.
The way the same-sex marriage legislation was rammed through was disgraceful. Its no small wonder Joe Comuzzi resigned. Its more surprising that he was the only one. In 2003, Comuzzi and six future cabinet colleagues were still backbenchers when they voted for a Canadian Alliance motion favouring the traditional definition of marriage. The others have decided to support the controversial Bill C-38 instead of giving up their cabinet seats. Most Liberals have at some point opposed same-sex marriage in a series of Commons votes since 1999, when the government was still fighting same-sex marriage in court. In 2003 current ministers Joe Fontana, John Efford, Albina Guarnieri, Joe McGuire and Joe Volpe voted with Comuzzi against same-sex marriage. Paul Martin had promised to have public hearings, but didn’t follow through. He had to quickly get attention diverted from Gomery. It worked, but little thought was given to the long term consequences, or the wishes of the majority of Canadians.
I believe that the Liberal MPs that you know may indeed be decent people f_s. I am not knocking your ability to judge character, but don’t rule out that they might not all be quite as upstanding as you think. Political expediency seems to take precedence of good governing, and part of politics is glad handing the public who put them there. A big smile, friendly talk and a firm handshake doesn’t mean they are looking out for your best interests. Ignoring your constituents wishes in order to please the Prime Minister, resembles self serving ambition more than good democratic rule.
It’s also interesting that the 2 morally upstanding MPs you mentioned either voted against the government or left the party. Where were rest of them?

[farmers_son]

I think we will have to agree to disagree on the bad apples outnumbering the good apples.

Given the comments that have been made, I wonder if one of our children decided to run for Member of Parliament, would we beam with pride or would we discourge them because of the personal price they would pay. I ask because my son very seriously considered filing his papers as an independent candidate in the last Federal election and I encouraged him. I was thinking it would have been a fabulous experience, but maybe not.

He would not have won of course, as this is Alberta, but the comments here certainly highlight the price he would have paid personally just for putting in his candidacy, forget what would happen if he had got elected.

[FarmRanger]

Don't misunderstand me f_s, I have absoulutely no problem with the good apples, unless its the stupid selfish decisions they make while towing the party line. They may be good apples, but if they blindly go along with bad government, maybe they aren't as good as you seem to think.
Cudos to your son if he ever gets in as an independent. Towing the party line has sent this country down an every darkening path. I'd personally rather see more independents than Liberals, judging the kind of government we have been getting from them. At least they wouldn't blindly follow the leader, no matter what Simon, er Paul says. Independents are far more likely to get elected on their own merits, rather than because they hold up a Liberal, Conservative, or NDP banner.

[cowman]

Well I don't want to paint Chuck with a broad brush...but lets face it...by voting to keep Parliment going he actually benifitted? I mean the guy has cancer and I doubt he'd want to have to pay the drug bill if he was off the medical plan?
Also how much of a factor was payback? Payback for the Conservative party giving him the old heave ho? Not saying that was pretty...but it is modern ethnic politics?
But of course I'm obviously looking at things from the wrong perspective...I'm sure old Chuck was voting his constituents wishes,right? After all the polls said it...and the polls never lie?

[farmers_son]

Chuck Cadman got into politics after Cadman's 16-year-old son Jesse was murdered and he has worked hard to improve Young Offender Legislation. I do not think Cadman is in politics for personal gain. Cadman might be bitter after he did not get the Conservative nomination but he had his sweet revenge when he won the seat as an independent. Who knows why he voted as he did. He said it was his constituents wish, which even if that is not true it was how it should have been.

I think the cancer remark is a low blow.

Hockey seems to have been replaced as our national sport. The new number one sport in this country has become denigrating our elected politicians. While it may be fun and doesn't take much thought or effort the downside is it undoubtedly keeps good people from running for office.

[farmers_son]

After the horror in London this AM, I would think that our discussion about which party is best or worst or which politician is the most unscrupulous in Canada is fairly petty, and I include myself in this comment.
I think we are all of the same view about wanting to see politicians that deserve the respect of Canadians. I will say that Martin made some excellent comments this morning, but the one political leader that will come out of this horrible mess looking like a leader is Bush, because he has been relentless in his war against terrorism even in the face of a lot of criticism.

[cowman]

I doubt I'm the only person in the world who thought that, farmers son? I wasn't saying that is the reason he voted the way he did...but I do know a bit about how human nature can work! Everyone isn't noble and pure and usually people will do what is best for themselves....they might even go to great lengths to rationalize their motives!
And I wasn't knocking him for voting that way...he has to live with himself and his decision.