Gabe Brown

[Guest]

https://www.arbico-organics.com/prod...nic-Fertilizer

So when all the easily mined phosphorous is depleted where is the phosphorous going to come from?

bat shit , its true !!

[Guest]

Mycorrhizae colonizes in undisturbed wheat roots. Glyphosate is an important part of the system keeping wheat roots intact, not requiring tillage to control weeds, perennial or otherwise.

Sorry to burst your bubble

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969718320345

[Guest]

https://www.arbico-organics.com/prod...nic-Fertilizer

bat shit , its true !!

We use something similar to this
https://www.guano.com.au/

[AlbertaFarmer5]

https://www.arbico-organics.com/prod...nic-Fertilizer

bat shit , its true !!

It is.

So we use bees to gather nectar from flowers. The supply is so difuse and such small quantities, that humans could never do it efficiently enough to get enough energy to be worth while, but millions of bees doing so is quite efficient.

Bats and seabirds have been accumulating phosphate in guana deposits from ( I assume) the sea animals they eat. Taking it from the environment where it is too difuse for humans to harvest economically, and concentrating it, asking nothing in return.

Could this be the future, encouraging an ecosystem where bats and birds can harvest phosphate and deposit it in the equivalent of hives for us to harvest. Perhaps, their prey or the predators could be tweaked to increase the yield, as we have done with every other domesticated species.

Keeping in mind that phosphorus is the 11th most abundant element on earth. We aren't going to run out, just run out of reserves that are sufficiently dense to be economical.

[makar]

It is.

So we use bees to gather nectar from flowers. The supply is so difuse and such small quantities, that humans could never do it efficiently enough to get enough energy to be worth while, but millions of bees doing so is quite efficient.

Bats and seabirds have been accumulating phosphate in guana deposits from ( I assume) the sea animals they eat. Taking it from the environment where it is too difuse for humans to harvest economically, and concentrating it, asking nothing in return.

Could this be the future, encouraging an ecosystem where bats and birds can harvest phosphate and deposit it in the equivalent of hives for us to harvest. Perhaps, their prey or the predators could be tweaked to increase the yield, as we have done with every other domesticated species.

Keeping in mind that phosphorus is the 11th most abundant element on earth. We aren't going to run out, just run out of reserves that are sufficiently dense to be economical.

Mining bat crap is a old industry, world will starve now. Maybe not Bill gates etal.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Mining bat crap is a old industry, world will starve now. Maybe not Bill gates etal.

The existing deposits that took 100,000's of years to accumulate are already mined out, only took decades.
I'm asking if we could accelerate the process by repurposing bats and birds specifically to harvest phosphate rich creatures for our purpose.

[Braveheart]

Sorry to burst your bubble

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969718320345

My bubble is just fine. Dr, Cyndi Grant did her her doctoral thesis on mycorrhizae and wheat roots at the U of Manitoba. Excellent work.

Our soil is on our field rather than the ditch or fence line. Our tractors don't get houred up. Our fuel bill shrinks.

Thank you glyphosate, you are wonderful. (Currently too expensive tho)

[makar]

Sure our buddy asscan is living in a cave as we speak.

[shtferbrains]

https://www.arbico-organics.com/prod...nic-Fertilizer

bat shit , its true !!

Yer basic nutrient transfer to the extreme.

[Blaithin]

Keeping in mind that phosphorus is the 11th most abundant element on earth. We aren't going to run out, just run out of reserves that are sufficiently dense to be economical.

And by sufficiently dense to be economical you mean for the required amount currently used in most mainstream farming practices.

[TOM4CWB]

Yer basic nutrient transfer to the extreme.

Crystal Green:

"In the past decade, phosphorus recovery has been the subject of intense research, and there are several new, economical methods by which it can be accomplished, many involving struvite formation. One technique, developed by University of British Columbia professor Don Mavinic, involves a cone-shaped reaction chamber in which small struvite crystals combine with magnesium, ammonium, and the phosphorus in wastewater on its way to a biosolids processor (X). The crystals grow until they are large enough to be collected by a filter and removed. These systems prevent struvite buildup in pipes, prevent phosphorus pollution in water basins, and provide valuable, usable phosphorus fertilizers. A company, Osatra Nutrient Recovery Technologies, Inc., was founded around the technology, and the struvite fertilizer the process creates is marketed as Crystal Green®"

We can/are now buy Crystal Green P recycled fertilizer. 80 years of 'conventional high grade P.
280yrs with lower P grade deposits.

Cheers

[TOM4CWB]

Crystal Green:

"In the past decade, phosphorus recovery has been the subject of intense research, and there are several new, economical methods by which it can be accomplished, many involving struvite formation. One technique, developed by University of British Columbia professor Don Mavinic, involves a cone-shaped reaction chamber in which small struvite crystals combine with magnesium, ammonium, and the phosphorus in wastewater on its way to a biosolids processor (X). The crystals grow until they are large enough to be collected by a filter and removed. These systems prevent struvite buildup in pipes, prevent phosphorus pollution in water basins, and provide valuable, usable phosphorus fertilizers. A company, Osatra Nutrient Recovery Technologies, Inc., was founded around the technology, and the struvite fertilizer the process creates is marketed as Crystal Green®"

We can/are now buy Crystal Green P recycled fertilizer. 80 years of 'conventional high grade P.
280yrs with lower P grade deposits.

Cheers

Surprise...

"A recent China Agriculture University study found that northern Chinese farmers use about 92 kg of phosphorus fertilizer per acre, of which only 39 kg are removed as crops. This means 53 kg, fully 58% of phosphorus, is not utilized and ultimately lost into the environment (21). As China is the largest phosphorus consumer in the world, with 5.2 Mt consumed in 2009 alone , reducing the country's phosphorus waste by even half would save the world over 1.5 Mt of phosphorus (3.45 Mt phosphate) per year."

Very interesting study by MIT:

http://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2016/finalwebsite/solutions/phosphorus.html

[furrowtickler]

Great thread Willy. With phosphorus availability and plant acquisition, that's the primary function of mycorrhizal fungi. Then there's glomalin, the carbon based soil glue it produces. Gabe manages the physical, chemical and biological aspects of soil very well. Farmers are primarily photosynthesis managers. Every cubic metre of air weighs about 1.3 kgs of which 14 grams or so is carbon which will make up the bulk of the plants we grow. Add in too much acid based fert and then imbalance the whole system with pesticides and you're on the treadmill. The Jena experiment in Germany is very interesting. Dr Christine Jones talks about quorum sensing, fascinating stuff.

You should actually try farming full scale , you have some not bad theories on paper .
Ask your friend some opinions that actually farms , I am curious if he reads this site
Does he / she use evil chemicals and herbicide? Do you ridicule him/ her 24/7 ? Looks like a successful farm , how is that possible doing everything wrong ??

[Guest]

Surprise...

"A recent China Agriculture University study found that northern Chinese farmers use about 92 kg of phosphorus fertilizer per acre, of which only 39 kg are removed as crops. This means 53 kg, fully 58% of phosphorus, is not utilized and ultimately lost into the environment (21). As China is the largest phosphorus consumer in the world, with 5.2 Mt consumed in 2009 alone , reducing the country's phosphorus waste by even half would save the world over 1.5 Mt of phosphorus (3.45 Mt phosphate) per year."

Very interesting study by MIT:

http://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2016/finalwebsite/solutions/phosphorus.html

Irresponsible post IMO. Why the China bashing? Same phos waste and misuse occurs around the world, especially here in the southern hemisphere. U.S. is no different. Industrial ag to blame

[AlbertaFarmer5]

You should actually try farming full scale , you have some not bad theories on paper .
Ask your friend some opinions that actually farms , I am curious if he reads this site
Does he / she use evil chemicals and herbicide? Do you ridicule him/ her 24/7 ? Looks like a successful farm , how is that possible doing everything wrong ??

How could it be that Austranada with all the answers ended up working for this farmer who is successfully ignoring all his great advice, and not the other way around.