Canola and planters

[Misterjade9]

Mortality means how many seeds will die, with my old worn out C shank drill my agrologists uses 25 percent mortality rate when we figure out seeding rates, but I know that is high and that I get better than 75 percent survival. But if I could get 95 percent with a planter and sow 3lbs per acre less seed the savings are large.

[furrowtickler]

Mortality means how many seeds will die, with my old worn out C shank drill my agrologists uses 25 percent mortality rate when we figure out seeding rates, but I know that is high and that I get better than 75 percent survival. But if I could get 95 percent with a planter and sow 3lbs per acre less seed the savings are large.

That was a huge part of our decision as well
The ole c shank bourgault 8910 was not the best but still works in a pinch . Still great for cereals though 👍

[Misterjade9]

Yea I would like to turn my old 5710 into a banding unit and get all my fert down in the fall, now with a better second tractor I don't have to use my main one on the grain cart, now just need an extra body in the fall to put fert on. The old drill has close to 85000 ACS on it, still does a good job on n cereals but I would like to be better on canola.

[tweety]

Yes but there are drills that have excellent plant counts at 3 lbs as well. Question is, given the same plant stand does a planter yield higher then a modern drill (old bourgs need not apply) and has this been done properly and recently?

How much yield difference, if any, is directly attributable to using a planter. Lots of wild claims with planters.

[furrowtickler]

Yes but there are drills that have excellent plant counts at 3 lbs as well. Question is, given the same plant stand does a planter yield higher then a modern drill (old bourgs need not apply) and has this been done properly and recently?

How much yield difference, if any, is directly attributable to using a planter. Lots of wild claims with planters.

No wild claim at all from us , ever .
Not much yield difference from any side by side we have done , and we have never claimed one.
Have always stated that other modern drills are excellent as well .
But also seen some of the best establishments from my neighbours old 8800 with poly packers .... he takes his time and does a great job .
The vast majority of the time it’s the operator, not the drill that does a good job.
I have seen poor results from the best most expensive drills , and planters on the market .... it’s operator error ...

For us....
two seeding units get more seed in the ground in a shorter time frame .
Planter is way better at establishing canola than our current drill .
Planters are far better at individual seed spacing which is critical for corn and some bean crops .
Planters have zero wheel tracks in wet conditions
For us to go to one bigger drill required a different tractor as well ..... making that cost almost tripple the planter alone .
The planter allows us to seed , soybeans Blackbeans, corn , canola , peas and possibly other crops very effectively and quick .. no drill on the market can do that .
No wild claims ever , just has a fit for some , not for all.
Was never sure why you have had such a piss rant about planters from day one . I have never made any claims you have stated , ever .
Good to be critical, that’s all good but most times your arguments are simply just to be argumentative.. like others here . Then get all up in arms when they get called out on things ... it is strange .
Have a good one .
Waiting out some showers here , before getting back to work

[Misterjade9]

That is exactly the same scenario I am in with getting a bigger and better drill. My landlord is trying silage corn for the first time this year and we scouted it yesterday before I sprayed the first pass. The planter he rented was a beat up broken down old JD, but it still excites me when I see the good placement and spacing of the seeds. I hear through the g****vine that in the middle of the month Bourgault is unveiling their seed singulation for their PHD's and disc drills. Not sure what it entails but would imagine it is only compatible with the new series air carts.

My next question Furrow is, what do you find with insect pressure early and disease pressure later with planted canola? Everyone around me that sows with a PHD, no matter what brand, is now reseeding because of Flea beetle damage and I can't seem to find enough damage to warrant spraying. I am off to look again this morning.

[biglentil]

That is exactly the same scenario I am in with getting a bigger and better drill. My landlord is trying silage corn for the first time this year and we scouted it yesterday before I sprayed the first pass. The planter he rented was a beat up broken down old JD, but it still excites me when I see the good placement and spacing of the seeds. I hear through the g****vine that in the middle of the month Bourgault is unveiling their seed singulation for their PHD's and disc drills. Not sure what it entails but would imagine it is only compatible with the new series air carts.

My next question Furrow is, what do you find with insect pressure early and disease pressure later with planted canola? Everyone around me that sows with a PHD, no matter what brand, is now reseeding because of Flea beetle damage and I can't seem to find enough damage to warrant spraying. I am off to look again this morning.

The wind protection that a furrow offers from a conventional air drill to a cotyledon is very real. Disc drills and planters leave them exposed on the surface. The wind has been absolutely brutal as of late and a stressed canola plant is vulnerable to flea beatles imo.

[furrowtickler]

That is exactly the same scenario I am in with getting a bigger and better drill. My landlord is trying silage corn for the first time this year and we scouted it yesterday before I sprayed the first pass. The planter he rented was a beat up broken down old JD, but it still excites me when I see the good placement and spacing of the seeds. I hear through the g****vine that in the middle of the month Bourgault is unveiling their seed singulation for their PHD's and disc drills. Not sure what it entails but would imagine it is only compatible with the new series air carts.

My next question Furrow is, what do you find with insect pressure early and disease pressure later with planted canola? Everyone around me that sows with a PHD, no matter what brand, is now reseeding because of Flea beetle damage and I can't seem to find enough damage to warrant spraying. I am off to look again this morning.

Insect pressure is solely depending on conditions. We seen that if the canola is growing aggressively, not an issue . If it’s struggling from a heavy rain or frost it needs to be watched very close , no different than any other seeding unit.
Last year there were fields around us wiped out at 4-5 lbs , the canola at 2 was fine
But we do watch very close because of the lower seed stand , and spray only if we absolutely have to.
Disease pressure has been non existent for the most part but we have had relatively dry summers since we bought the planter 4 years ago .
Although last year in the peas there was a huge difference in low areas side by side with drill

Again the is way more To it than lowering seed rates .
In peas , less seed , less seed treatment, less inoculant needed. Same with beans .

[tweety]

No wild claim at all from us , ever .
Not much yield difference from any side by side we have done , and we have never claimed one.
Have always stated that other modern drills are excellent as well .
But also seen some of the best establishments from my neighbours old 8800 with poly packers .... he takes his time and does a great job .
The vast majority of the time it’s the operator, not the drill that does a good job.
I have seen poor results from the best most expensive drills , and planters on the market .... it’s operator error ...

For us....
two seeding units get more seed in the ground in a shorter time frame .
Planter is way better at establishing canola than our current drill .
Planters are far better at individual seed spacing which is critical for corn and some bean crops .
Planters have zero wheel tracks in wet conditions
For us to go to one bigger drill required a different tractor as well ..... making that cost almost tripple the planter alone .
The planter allows us to seed , soybeans Blackbeans, corn , canola , peas and possibly other crops very effectively and quick .. no drill on the market can do that .
No wild claims ever , just has a fit for some , not for all.
Was never sure why you have had such a piss rant about planters from day one . I have never made any claims you have stated , ever .
Good to be critical, that’s all good but most times your arguments are simply just to be argumentative.. like others here . Then get all up in arms when they get called out on things ... it is strange .
Have a good one .
Waiting out some showers here , before getting back to work

Not sure how you equate asking if there has been any recent studies done comparing the two seeding methods is argumentative, but ok. I have a planter as well, have not seen much difference except the capital cost and cost of operation. If you plant corn, sunnies, the usual C4 sensitive to light and spacing, sure - but even then seed suppliers will plant the corn for free. For the basic wheat canola guy, seriously think about the cost/benefits.

As far as wild claims, the latest i saw was moving to a planter will allow not having to use fertilizer any longer within a couple of years, and substantially less initially. Like regenerative ag, when it turns into a religion, its time to take a closer look.

For your operation - a planter makes sense.

[furrowtickler]

Not sure how you equate asking if there has been any recent studies done comparing the two seeding methods is argumentative, but ok. I have a planter as well, have not seen much difference except the capital cost and cost of operation. If you plant corn, sunnies, the usual C4 sensitive to light and spacing, sure - but even then seed suppliers will plant the corn for free. For the basic wheat canola guy, seriously think about the cost/benefits.

As far as wild claims, the latest i saw was moving to a planter will allow not having to use fertilizer any longer within a couple of years, and substantially less initially. Like regenerative ag, when it turns into a religion, its time to take a closer look.

For your operation - a planter makes sense.

Agreed , if your a basic wheat canola guy it may not be a fit at all .
But if your looking at getting a bigger drill and need a bigger tractor to pull that drill and and ...
They are worth considering, plus it gives one the option to look at growing different crops and diversify ones rotation . But each to their own
We ran old JD planters for years , they are still going in corn . Basic , simple and still very effective for corn .
I think peas and lentils will be the next crops to take off with planters . Peas for sure from what we seen last year and others doing the same thing .
What kind of planter do you run ?
As far as studies , well , I see what works on my own farm and make our own judgment how it fits.
What some studies say in other areas in totally different conditions is not meaningless but is not 100 percent applicable to all . Like most things in life lol
And yes , we have seriously thought of the cost benefits lol ... it’s what we do as farmers every day just like most on here 👍👍

[furrowtickler]

Did some corn at 15 in space
Same 32,000 seeds per /ac rate as 30 in
Seeds roughly 10 in apart compared to 5
Tried to offset every second run 1/2 second to utilize space .
More research showing benefits to this the farther north you go
Should utilize more sunlight and be better for crop competition......

[furrowtickler]

Was wondering tweety why is your cost of operation so high as you say with your planter ?
I think I asked before but what kind is it ? Why is your cost so high?
Other than a new set of discs per year at about $40 cnd we have spent next to nothing .
Did 3600 ac this year with it .

[ColevilleH2S]

Was wondering tweety why is your cost of operation so high as you say with your planter ?
I think I asked before but what kind is it ? Why is your cost so high?
Other than a new set of discs per year at about $40 cnd we have spent next to nothing .
Did 3600 ac this year with it .

Maybe extra tillage and fertilizer passes?

[furrowtickler]

Maybe extra tillage and fertilizer passes?

We are finding out it’s not necessary most of time .
But ya it has been something we thought had to be done . After a lot of different things we tried this year , the peas and canola in standing stubble were just fine again

[Rareearth]

Hi furrow
Two different seed packing concepts:
1. Traditional seed master, seed hawk, Bourgault, etc all have a wheel to pack the seed and furrrow closely behind the opener to both pack and manage seed depth. The openers blow dirt out to the side, causing very high ridges that can :
a) protect seedlings from wind and frost?
b) bury seed much deeper than intended, wind or heavy rain with or without wind
c) cause very rough fields, that old times called “un harvestable “, today many growers land roll those fields over packing them causing ponding and flooding of the fields low ground and sometimes most productive land. But smoother to harvest for vehicles or if crop is hailed on or lodged.
d) the ridges direct light rain fall and moisture over the seed to improve germination in dry years

2. Traditional planters all have (or most do) closing wheels that push the sidewalls of the trench to close the dirt over the seed , pushing moist dirt over the seed(if seeded deep enough) there by allowing for less dirt over the seed, no high side wall, loose dirt to wash and bury the seed deeper than intended
a) smooth fields
b seed depth that’s exactly where you set it, and it stays there


Question is, why don’t traditional air seeders use closing wheels vs packing wheels ?
Seems to be movement by some of the manufacturers back to disk openers.