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End of commodity boom real reason for national anger

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    End of commodity boom real reason for national anger

    End of commodity boom real reason for national anger
    By Ed White
    Western Producer
    Published: October 31, 2019

    There’s an ugly feeling across Canada, apparent in the federal election and its results, but long-simmering beforehand.

    Politicians have been horrible to each other. But so too have millions of Canadian citizens, these days often portraying each other as enemies rather than as fellow citizens with differing views. This is particularly true on social media, where insults and abuse are everywhere.

    We have suggestions of secession from some in both Western Canada and Quebec. We have people of all provinces seemingly uncaring about the concerns and situations of their neighbours.

    We have some citizens speaking in tones that can best be described as hateful.

    What’s causing the outrage and fury?

    Pipelines? Pro or con, those are a common provocation for many.

    Carbon taxes? That’s another spur to angry talk from all sides.

    Is it Justin Trudeau’s urbane, sleek, happy-socks-wearing demeanour?

    Is it Andrew Scheer’s smug-seeming, dimpled countenance?

    I suggest it’s from none of these causes, which are just the sparks for a pile of fuel built up from a much more mundane but far deeper source: the end of the commodity boom.

    Since the boom subsided in 2014, Canada’s fortunes have markedly ebbed. Oil prices have fallen far beneath the prevailing range of 2006-14, when $100 per barrel oil was nothing special. (The differential between western Canadian crude and the world price, due to inadequate pipeline capacity, makes things much worse.) Metals and minerals have slumped and bring a far lower average price.

    And crops, obviously to readers of this newspaper, have fallen into a much lower range of prices, one that offers meagre profitability in a good year.

    This is life in the afterglow of the commodity bull market and it’s bad for most Canadians. Farmers and oilfield workers know that directly, finding it hard to cover operating costs, to find work, or to find the confidence to decide to reinvest in operations. That’s been the situation for five years now, and a lot of the bills that piled up during the good times have been coming due, and being put off, and the grind of working off the debt and optimism is wearing people down.

    When everybody was preaching to us about peak oil theory, with its permanently high prices, and we were all buying into the idea of the world running out of food (nine billion people by 2050), being residents of a resource-producing region seemed like Honest John’s “easy road to success.”

    Now all those assumptions seem dodgy, and there’s no reason to think anything is changing any time soon. Commodity booms usually come only every 15 to 20 years, so long-term commodity prices aren’t likely to substantially rebound for about another decade. That means farmers and other resource producers need to hunker down, achieve industry-leading costs of production, reduce risk and prepare for a long haul of weak returns.

    That’s not a recipe for good will and bonhomie, especially after the dreamy future we thought we were moving into.

    Urban people, too, are affected by this. But most don’t get it. They wonder why they can’t seem to get ahead these days. Why don’t their wages increase? Why can’t people afford houses? Why does life seem so challenging?

    It’s the same cause. Canada lives off resource revenues, with everything from banks to construction firms to the arts industry benefitting when resource revenues are high and the money is flowing around the economy.

    That money has been drying up in recent years, but most urban people are clueless about why. Most don’t realize how directly their situation and the situation of their children is dictated by how the resource-producers are doing. Some are slightly interested and some really couldn’t care less.

    And some, seething about the frustrations in their lives, lash out at farmers and oilfield people, for WRECKING THE PLANET!

    Cows belching methane. Oilsands operations exhaling carbon. The world is being punished, and it’s because of the resource-producers, they believe. That explains to them why everything seems so crappy these days.

    Many Canadians have turned against each other in the last couple of years, forming tribes of outrage and finding joy in denunciation.

    Others are just dispirited, especially after seeing such a gutter-level federal election campaign of insult and abuse.

    Almost none of this would be happening if oil prices were $30 per barrel higher, or canola prices were $3 per bushel higher, or better prices were coming from the world market for aluminum, potash and wood. Everybody would be relatively happy, and Canadian society would be advancing.

    Today’s outrages would be minor annoyances.

    Instead we’re all mad at each other and looking for somebody to blame for our frustrations.

    We might as well stop looking. There’s no politician or type of Canadian that’s causing this.

    It’s the commodity cycle speaking, and we wish it wasn’t so.

    https://www.producer.com/2019/10/end-of-commodity-boom-real-reason-for-national-anger/?module=under-carousel&pgtype=section&i=
    Last edited by chuckChuck; Nov 4, 2019, 08:05.

    #2
    It wouldn't have anything to do with losing markets would it....Lost flax to the EU long ago....Canola is being re-routed to China with another middleman....Crush margins are up so they are well ahead in that industry and taking every penny they can with the margins....

    We can float the Saudis 3.4 billion for LAVs , stop selling them wheat with an ignorant tweet.

    We can throw 750 million at India for a 250 million return deal...

    India still isn't buying pulses at a reasonable price and that market is slowly moving to the FSU ....once with flax now with pulses....

    Every one in the farm groups says they don't set farm prices but why does every other country's farmers have government direct support???


    Just number of other factors that might be bothering farmers other than the lame ass excuse of a cycle....

    Phucking media never mentioned the 30 billion handed out by the US government to farmers there...

    Cycle...smycle...


    I will say this again....Western Canadian farmers can not price their grain off a subsidized market.....once the media understands that statement .....then they can start having some degree of understanding of the underlying problem in western canadian agriculture....

    Quebec farmers are not really complaining...know why....3.5 billion in promises that are about to come true....direct government payment...

    Wonder if there is a commodity cycle in milk...sure seems like the milk I buy never goes down in price....
    Last edited by bucket; Nov 4, 2019, 08:10.

    Comment


      #3
      that guy seems to hate farmers
      its all about jealousy , but would have to get off their ass and work , don't want to , so pisses them off

      Comment


        #4
        Yawn, chuck obviously knows nothing about Canada nor economics. Yes commodity booms and busts happens but they are usually precipitated by poor govt and economic policy.

        And why would unrelated commodities boom and bust at the same time. You mean lentils and soft wood lumber are related? Natural gas and chick peas? Hmmm well how?

        This slowdown is a function of something bigger in the economy. Debt overhang, overspending and borrowing at all levels.

        Doesn't matter what the reason, natural resources are all we got. There isn't any face book or twitter campus moving here, or any high tech jobs. Govt jobs, expensive housing and natural resources. That's all Canada will ever be so get used to it.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by jazz View Post
          Yawn, chuck obviously knows nothing about Canada nor economics. Yes commodity booms and busts happens but they are usually precipitated by poor govt and economic policy.

          And why would unrelated commodities boom and bust at the same time. You mean lentils and soft wood lumber are related? Natural gas and chick peas? Hmmm well how?

          This slowdown is a function of something bigger in the economy. Debt overhang, overspending and borrowing at all levels.

          Doesn't matter what the reason, natural resources are all we got. There isn't any face book or twitter campus moving here, or any high tech jobs. Govt jobs, expensive housing and natural resources. That's all Canada will ever be so get used to it.
          The bold highlights that they are not coming here until the government subsidizes them....no industry comes here without a tit to suck on....

          Comment


            #6
            He forgot a brain dead leader

            Comment


              #7
              Many US farmers are struggling as well, even with Trump trying to buy their support after adding fuel to the trade war at their expense.

              A lot of what happens to markets is beyond the control of Canadian politicians.

              We need better safety nets. But when Conservative premiers in western canada aren't prepared to spend more or push for better coverage, then what are the chances better programs will happen?

              With over a $100 billion in debt and a period of low commodity prices and bad weather, what would it take to cover the losses? So much that it scares the hell out of a lot of governments who want to reduce their deficits.

              Comment


                #8
                Jazz quote

                "And why would unrelated commodities boom and bust at the same time. You mean lentils and soft wood lumber are related? Natural gas and chick peas? Hmmm well how?"

                Maybe ask Errol to explain why many commodities took off and then started to decline in price.

                Do you think it had anything to do with exceptional economic growth in China and other parts of the world and then a decline in that growth and demand for all types of commodities?

                Do you make business plans on your farm based on the highest income years? And then blame politicians when commodity prices and incomes fall?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Trump understands the engine and the power of the USA economy.

                  Trudeau doesnt know which bathroom to use.

                  Thats at least a few hundred billion of our problem right there.

                  The patch is trying to close the heavy differential if we would get the f out of their way they would add $100M a week to our GDP.

                  Canada is an export nation so you don't fly around the world preaching to China and others. That sht don't play there.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Trump and the trade war are a big reason why commodity prices and economies are slowing!

                    But I don't expect you will ever understand how your beloved Trump could do anything wrong.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I think the article makes lots of sense, granted there may be other factors at play also. Been stated many times on hear that farmers and resources are wealth creators and it trickles down the economy, that's exactly what the article is saying, that the well has been drying up.

                      If it had been wrote by someone other than the WP or posted by someone other than CC I bet the response on agriville would be different.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by chuckChuck View Post
                        End of commodity boom real reason for national anger
                        By Ed White
                        Western Producer
                        Published: October 31, 2019

                        There’s an ugly feeling across Canada, apparent in the federal election and its results, but long-simmering beforehand.

                        Politicians have been horrible to each other. But so too have millions of Canadian citizens, these days often portraying each other as enemies rather than as fellow citizens with differing views. This is particularly true on social media, where insults and abuse are everywhere.

                        We have suggestions of secession from some in both Western Canada and Quebec. We have people of all provinces seemingly uncaring about the concerns and situations of their neighbours.

                        We have some citizens speaking in tones that can best be described as hateful.

                        What’s causing the outrage and fury?

                        Pipelines? Pro or con, those are a common provocation for many.

                        Carbon taxes? That’s another spur to angry talk from all sides.

                        Is it Justin Trudeau’s urbane, sleek, happy-socks-wearing demeanour?

                        Is it Andrew Scheer’s smug-seeming, dimpled countenance?

                        I suggest it’s from none of these causes, which are just the sparks for a pile of fuel built up from a much more mundane but far deeper source: the end of the commodity boom.

                        Since the boom subsided in 2014, Canada’s fortunes have markedly ebbed. Oil prices have fallen far beneath the prevailing range of 2006-14, when $100 per barrel oil was nothing special. (The differential between western Canadian crude and the world price, due to inadequate pipeline capacity, makes things much worse.) Metals and minerals have slumped and bring a far lower average price.

                        And crops, obviously to readers of this newspaper, have fallen into a much lower range of prices, one that offers meagre profitability in a good year.

                        This is life in the afterglow of the commodity bull market and it’s bad for most Canadians. Farmers and oilfield workers know that directly, finding it hard to cover operating costs, to find work, or to find the confidence to decide to reinvest in operations. That’s been the situation for five years now, and a lot of the bills that piled up during the good times have been coming due, and being put off, and the grind of working off the debt and optimism is wearing people down.

                        When everybody was preaching to us about peak oil theory, with its permanently high prices, and we were all buying into the idea of the world running out of food (nine billion people by 2050), being residents of a resource-producing region seemed like Honest John’s “easy road to success.”

                        Now all those assumptions seem dodgy, and there’s no reason to think anything is changing any time soon. Commodity booms usually come only every 15 to 20 years, so long-term commodity prices aren’t likely to substantially rebound for about another decade. That means farmers and other resource producers need to hunker down, achieve industry-leading costs of production, reduce risk and prepare for a long haul of weak returns.

                        That’s not a recipe for good will and bonhomie, especially after the dreamy future we thought we were moving into.

                        Urban people, too, are affected by this. But most don’t get it. They wonder why they can’t seem to get ahead these days. Why don’t their wages increase? Why can’t people afford houses? Why does life seem so challenging?

                        It’s the same cause. Canada lives off resource revenues, with everything from banks to construction firms to the arts industry benefitting when resource revenues are high and the money is flowing around the economy.

                        That money has been drying up in recent years, but most urban people are clueless about why. Most don’t realize how directly their situation and the situation of their children is dictated by how the resource-producers are doing. Some are slightly interested and some really couldn’t care less.

                        And some, seething about the frustrations in their lives, lash out at farmers and oilfield people, for WRECKING THE PLANET!

                        Cows belching methane. Oilsands operations exhaling carbon. The world is being punished, and it’s because of the resource-producers, they believe. That explains to them why everything seems so crappy these days.

                        Many Canadians have turned against each other in the last couple of years, forming tribes of outrage and finding joy in denunciation.

                        Others are just dispirited, especially after seeing such a gutter-level federal election campaign of insult and abuse.

                        Almost none of this would be happening if oil prices were $30 per barrel higher, or canola prices were $3 per bushel higher, or better prices were coming from the world market for aluminum, potash and wood. Everybody would be relatively happy, and Canadian society would be advancing.

                        Today’s outrages would be minor annoyances.

                        Instead we’re all mad at each other and looking for somebody to blame for our frustrations.

                        We might as well stop looking. There’s no politician or type of Canadian that’s causing this.

                        It’s the commodity cycle speaking, and we wish it wasn’t so.

                        https://www.producer.com/2019/10/end-of-commodity-boom-real-reason-for-national-anger/?module=under-carousel&pgtype=section&i=
                        Has this reporter heard of hedging and risk management of our farm products we grow!?

                        What a cop out... blame every one else. Grow crops people want. WHAT?

                        MARKETING. SELL WHEN PRICES ARE PROFITABLE, GROW PRODUCE THAT IS NEEDED!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by chuckChuck View Post
                          Jazz quote

                          "And why would unrelated commodities boom and bust at the same time. You mean lentils and soft wood lumber are related? Natural gas and chick peas? Hmmm well how?"

                          Maybe ask Errol to explain why many commodities took off and then started to decline in price.

                          Do you think it had anything to do with exceptional economic growth in China and other parts of the world and then a decline in that growth and demand for all types of commodities?

                          Do you make business plans on your farm based on the highest income years? And then blame politicians when commodity prices and incomes fall?
                          chuckChuck . . . China's commodity boom lasted between 2008 to 2012 . . . it's been all downhill since then.

                          China's growth was skyrocketing around 14% annually in their heyday. Now China's growth is likely around 5%. China basically consumes 50% or more of global commodities. China's 2008 Olympics were their 'coming out party'. Inflation in commodities was brisk, times were good. That has now all changed . . . .

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by TOM4CWB View Post
                            Has this reporter heard of hedging and risk management of our farm products we grow!?

                            What a cop out... blame every one else. Grow crops people want. WHAT?

                            MARKETING. SELL WHEN PRICES ARE PROFITABLE, GROW PRODUCE THAT IS NEEDED!
                            There is no way to hedge on a subsidized market that doesn't take into account regional issues like the drought in Australia and the horrible Western canadian harvest....couple that with the FSU investing in their infrastructure to basically absorb our markets by the fact our incompetent governments refuse to recognize agriculture in this country needs help...


                            You can hedge your loss using your farm's equity TOM or keep asking for the seed tax to make up for it...

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by errolanderson View Post
                              chuckChuck . . . China's commodity boom lasted between 2008 to 2012 . . . it's been all downhill since then.

                              China's growth was skyrocketing around 14% annually in their heyday. Now China's growth is likely around 5%. China basically consumes 50% or more of global commodities. China's 2008 Olympics were their 'coming out party'. Inflation in commodities was brisk, times were good. That has now all changed . . . .
                              Drove 6 hours yesterday! huge piles of wet wheat on ground everywhere!!! No wonder prices have dropped!!! Twice as much wheat yield [[in many areas] as last year!!! Should no surprise!!! Blame elevator companies??? You guys... WAKE UP!!!

                              Comment

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