Can anyone tell me what happens when....???

[GDR]

Do you guys still get to decide a month after seeding whether you want insurance or not? That’s also a big plus. I bet it is better there from what I heard. Over here other then piss poor coverages you sometimes deal with all these excuses to not pay the claims. Seems to vary by office and adjuster for some reasons

Sort of but not exactly. You have to have a contract in place by April 30 and delegate what possible crops you may seed and total acres and then by June 20th you have to tell them what you seeded and where. You can drop or add acres at that time if you have a good reason but they assume and give discounts to insure all acres.

[GDR]

Could you explain the part I'm not understanding Furrow? I really want to understand this. Hamloc said his total cost to grow canola was roughly $350/acre with "everything" included down to rent, labor, depreciation etc. He didn't mention what his coverage was but I'd assume it might be about the same given what my coverage would be here and knowing roughly where he farms. Don't they pay out or what's the catch I don't know about?

Jazz said later "Insurance will cover costs in most cases, but it wont cover a profit, so who feed your kids for the year?"

That was my understanding of crop insurance.

Not that I'm complaining because I choose to run cattle but if we get a drought and are short feed I have to buy feed to maintain the "factory" for another year or sell breeding stock into a price depressed market. Last year between hail and drought it cost me in the region of $65,000 for additional feed/pasture. That was just direct cost and doesn't include extra labor, fuel etc to utilise it. No-one puts that money back in my pocket - that's a straight cash loss, not just a loss of profit. Now you might say it's not the same as I don't spend $1 million dollars seeding grass every year which is true enough but we still do share a lot of the same costs. Land costs, labor, depreciation, machinery, repairs, fencing, fertiliser, fuel, seed etc
From my point of view we ranchers are taking a bigger risk than farmers with crop insurance - the sums we risk are maybe smaller $ wise but it's in a consistently lower margin business.
As I say I'm not complaining as it's my choice to do what I do. It's not a p#%#^ match about who is hardest done to - I just want someone to explain to me why crop insurance is such a bad deal when it looks from my perspective to offer quite a lot of security.

There are also insurance programs geared towards livestock production also. You can insure your annual feed crops,lack of moisture insurance, forage yield insurance, plus the price insurance you can buy. Same shit different pile.

Cows do provide some level of protection on their own by being able to compensate for situations that aren't as easy on a straight grain farm. Such as grazing hailed crops or ones too short to cut. Even slough and weed patches etc. Can also survive on quite a varied diet if necessary. But less than ideal conditions take fun out of any type of farming for sure.

[tweety]

Tweety, you around in 1980?

Isolating a particular few years isn't the way to look at it. Land in AB has averaged around what 7.5% per year since the 60's. Extremely solid investment. It would be terrible if a farmer couldn't last 10 years, and there was always new ones, but that is not the case.

The same farmers have complained on this site for many years they lose money every year.

[furrowtickler]

Isolating a particular few years isn't the way to look at it. Land in AB has averaged around what 7.5% per year since the 60's. Extremely solid investment. It would be terrible if a farmer couldn't last 10 years, and there was always new ones, but that is not the case.

The same farmers have complained on this site for many years they lose money every year.

That’s great that land has gone way up , yup until you have to buy and or pay double the land tax’s on the same dirt as before . It’s the same dirt as the 60’s that produces the same crops . The only thing that’s changed is farming practices. And right now crop prices are far less than what we received 20-30 years ago when adjusted for inflation.
As for Sask crop insurance, it is as I said very inadequate in today’s world .
If you never have grain farmed in Sask , grass and Tweety , you obviously don’t know . I have for 30 years and am telling you both your numbers are way out on average.
I will pull some numbers so maybe you will get it , but not until I get back.
Just out trying to get some family time in now .
But if someone else here can provide the numbers for Sask crop insurance coverage please do . Again they don’t come close to covering expenses in general.
Just because one spends $350 / ac for example, does not mean your automatically covered for $350 .. lmao ... not in Sask . If you can in Alberta that’s great. That would give one the cocky attitude that one can never go backwards, just sayin.
Also if crop insurance was soooooo bullet proof , please explain all the bankruptcies in Sask the last ten years .... that should not happen then right ?
I know just locally there may be a few more again this year.
Simply any insurance has not kept up to the rising costs on farms ..... not in Sask.
Some of us been in and dealt with Sask crop insurance for 30 years ..... we know .
Anyone that does not grain farm in Sask simply is just barking b/S

[farming101]

Max coverage we can buy for canola is $298 - 80% option

Wheat $181, Barley $157

[helmsdale]

80%, new entrant with no history(as far as afsc is concerned anyway) with hail endorsement

Red lentils: $149.12 premium of $21.70-31.67 depending on township
Yellow mustard: $136.58 premium of $20.57-32.89
Peas: $183.17 premium $19.45-20.48
Durum: $137.00 premium $13.89-15.87
CPS wheat: $98.74 premium $13.97-19.23

Crop insurance is a real get broke quick scheme here at least with area averages.

[Guest]

Then EVERYONE should be doing it. Or everyone would want to do it.
Hardly. Most people don't have the balls or intestinal fortitude for the risk. But according to some people there is no risk.

thats it in a nutshell, farma
and many "very smart" , just schooled people have tried
anyone who says there is no risk has never laid their nuts on the line

[bucket]

thats it in a nutshell, farma
and many "very smart" , just schooled people have tried
anyone who says there is no risk has never laid their nuts on the line

Yup and its even worse when city folk family members show up telling you how good it is....

[Guest]

ok i pulled that number for canola outta my hat on the weekend
here are exact numbers ;
canola-$452-prem $12.92
oats -$305-$10.72
peas-$218-$11.01
canary-$269-$9.71
wheat-$298-$9.73
barley-$206.91-$7.68
all at 80%
we have virtually never collected except for flood year , 15, and drought year in 02,
we have had a very good working relationship with SCIC, wouldn't considering not buying it , we trust them , they trust us , i think . they have also given us some very good advice over the years
others can bash them all they want , but i am glad they have been part of our business
what some like tweety don't understand if you use or abuse the program at all , your coverage goes down fast and your premium goes up fast and you are really only covered for yield , not this dollar figure
i didn't agree with premium going up after using it on flood on our IP canola year after getting 11.5 " rain in 4 days, but hey, nothing is perfect
as far as individual coverage , dream on . those same low lifes that bought all their land back for $.25 on the dollar after they raised the price by paying double the price in the 80's , the guys that milk agstability , the guys that farmed land bank would milk the shit outta that , so no aint never gonna happen because of the 10% crooked lowlifes that think govt'/taxpayers should support them and continually farm "programs"
but all the same inputs are outta control and there is gonna be a wreck real soon

[tweety]

80%, new entrant with no history(as far as afsc is concerned anyway) with hail endorsement

Red lentils: $149.12 premium of $21.70-31.67 depending on township
Yellow mustard: $136.58 premium of $20.57-32.89
Peas: $183.17 premium $19.45-20.48
Durum: $137.00 premium $13.89-15.87
CPS wheat: $98.74 premium $13.97-19.23

Crop insurance is a real get broke quick scheme here at least with area averages.

What would be your premiums without the tax payer funded subsidies? What would your position be without crop insurance at all? Would it change the way you farmed? Would so many farmers still go nuts into debt if there were no risk management programs?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Here are some actual numbers from AFSC.

I do not carry crop insurance, because I cannot see any way to get my money back with these numbers:

80% coverage on canola for my area, including Hail endorsement, and spring price protection would be $48.27. for max liability of $320.73. And the 80% yield would be 30 bushels, even in the worst hail, drought, flood, frost, snow years, we have never been that low.

CPS $47.42 for $374 liability

Barley 25.79 for $218.88 liability.

It would get better with experience as we would build our yield up, but would have to spend a lot of money to get there. Money better spent on improvements so we can avoid many of those problems.


The theory that crop insurance is 2/3 paid for by government just doesn't seem to trickle down to the producer. By AFSC's own numbers, they paid out 37% of the total premiums collected last year. So if farmers paid 33.3% of the premiums, that means administration ate up 63% of the premiums(or it went into reserves?) And farmers got 10% more back than they put in, which isn't a bad ROI, but I can't seem to find anyone who has accomplished that positive ROI.

[the big wheel]

What would be your premiums without the tax payer funded subsidies? What would your position be without crop insurance at all? Would it change the way you farmed? Would so many farmers still go nuts into debt if there were no risk management programs?

Those numbers don’t add up here that anyone is subsidizing us. More money is going from crop insurance into general revenues than any so called bullshit subsidy.

Without cropninsursnce wouldn’t be much worse off as it is because on youryears wirhout claims the premium is major expense.
Your speaking like all the other politicians that try to justify to the brainless why the program isn’t improved. Your implying we all spend foolishly because of the crapinsurance we have? Lmao hahahahaha it doesn’t pay the basic expenses of keeping your farm going. If you have 2 or 3 wipeouts it becomes an absolute joke. They need to find a way to not penalize you for a large drought or flood or early frost like it does.
It may work for people that have had 10 years of bumper crops and then have a loss but If you had that you wouldn’t need cropninsursnce year 11. Just like agristability it’s rhere for people that don’t need it. Everyone else it pays some and for many pays next to nothing. Make work project.

How many jobs depend on us farmers no matter who is farming?

[helmsdale]

What would be your premiums without the tax payer funded subsidies? What would your position be without crop insurance at all? Would it change the way you farmed? Would so many farmers still go nuts into debt if there were no risk management programs?

Premiums would be double so they tell me.

Position without? It's basically like farming without on wheat and durum anyway... need sub 15bu before you see new money anyway.

Would it change the way I farm? Doubtful... costs are trimmed to bare bones as is.

Would so many still go into debt? The heroes around here are all in some with it, many without.

My beef with crop insurance is that it's been allowed to be farmed so hard around here the area average is pitiful for those that actually intend to grow a crop to put in the bin.

[tweety]

Those numbers don’t add up here that anyone is subsidizing us. More money is going from crop insurance into general revenues than any so called bullshit subsidy.

Without cropninsursnce wouldn’t be much worse off as it is because on youryears wirhout claims the premium is major expense.
Your speaking like all the other politicians that try to justify to the brainless why the program isn’t improved. Your implying we all spend foolishly because of the crapinsurance we have? Lmao hahahahaha it doesn’t pay the basic expenses of keeping your farm going. If you have 2 or 3 wipeouts it becomes an absolute joke. They need to find a way to not penalize you for a large drought or flood or early frost like it does.
It may work for people that have had 10 years of bumper crops and then have a loss but If you had that you wouldn’t need cropninsursnce year 11. Just like agristability it’s rhere for people that don’t need it. Everyone else it pays some and for many pays next to nothing. Make work project.

How many jobs depend on us farmers no matter who is farming?

Well in Ab its subsidized around 50 - 75% of actual cost. I'm sure someone knows how much in SK.

They have a way to compensate you for that flood, drought, frost - its called crop insurance.

You're mostly saying you expect a guaranteed income - you need "an improved program" - ie you want more tax payer paid money and subsidies even though you probably are worth millions. If every farmer is in the same boat, why is that a problem? Doesn't the free and open market compensate?

[TASFarms]

Doesn’t the sask govt just put in an I owe you to crop insurance and doesn’t ever pay their share.