Seed Synergy... what does our Canadian seed system.. need to do?

[bucket]

Geez Tom, hardly seems worth the effort, I guess I'll have to take your word.

50% cert sold as commercial because seed quality can't be met? Picked the wrong variety, hence no one wants it? Asking too much(after royalties, cleaning and handling, certification and inspection costs are all accounted for)?

I can honestly say I don't understand the "co-op" marketing thing....are you wholesaling it to a "Co-op" retailer or are you talking the Secan Co-operative dividend type payment.

Thanks in advance.

Another TOM4JUSTME sympathy story....don't fall for it....

[wmoebis]

Dear Bucket,
As rotations... and pedigreed seed land use [for purity quality control] protocol requires over 50% of our production acreage be harvested as commercial grain... there are no seed revenues from 3/4 of our grain production. Cheers

Does that explain how Triffid flax got into the system and contaminated flax industry?

[furrowtickler]

Regardless of all the hardships in the seed industry from the breeder to the seed grower ....... the end result will be as an example ...
2000 ac wheat seed cost from $14 / ac to $35 .

That’s an extra $42,000 cost for an average grower with 2000 ac of wheat .
It does not matter how Tom splits that out into seed growers , breeders or the many other leach’s in between, that money is still going to come out of primary producers pockets . And the numbers will be at least that . No different than what happened in the canola seed Industry. It exploded from $2/lb to $15 in a relatively short time .
I am not here to bash seed growers at all , I am just stating that guys like Tom refuse to admit that this is going to cost primary producers a lot of money . He just spent the past 2 weeks making every excuse known in The industry to deflect attention to the fact stated above .
That’s the aggravation of it all ..
no different than the supporters of the carbon tax ...... just admit that it’s going to cost us all a lot of money we don’t have .
Growing more bushels to cover these costs is getting us nowhere but every one else in the Ag industry more money .
Then throw in Mother Nature in where we are at complete mercy of in terms yields ... not fancy seed , fertilizers or any other input or extra wealth transfer costs .
That is why most of us are saying ... enough already !!

[TOM4CWB]

Wmoebis,
It cannot be absolutely proved... BUT
Triffid contamination appears to have been magnified through plant breeding stocks... after being contaminated with the triffid genetics at the top levels... then spread through the breeder seed/pedigreed seed system ... with contamination very difficult to identify...
years of reproduction went by[perhaps over 10 years]...
Then it was very difficult and costly to completely rebuild seed varieties and stocks from the top down.

Does that explain how Triffid flax got into the system and contaminated flax industry?

[TOM4CWB]

Furrowtickler,
Our farm pedigreed seed production... is a matter of heritage... not profit based. As A CSGA member for 40 years... producing high quality planting seed is a matter of farm practice... not driven by profit. If 25% of our pedigreed seed production is not seeded as planting seed... it normally is not because of purity... we will not pedigree a crop that is impure... or of poor germination. Lack of demand for a variety... is the normal reason pedigreed seed is dumped as commercial grain... we are required to forecast demand often 2-3 years before planting seed sales... which is often harder for us to figure out before real seed demand actually is a market reality. Easier for Commercial growers to identify real increased value of a variety... after it has been tested through the pedigreed seed multiplication phase of introduction to grain farmers.

Regardless of all the hardships in the seed industry from the breeder to the seed grower ....... the end result will be as an example ...
2000 ac wheat seed cost from $14 / ac to $35 .

That’s an extra $42,000 cost for an average grower with 2000 ac of wheat .
It does not matter how Tom splits that out into seed growers , breeders or the many other leach’s in between, that money is still going to come out of primary producers pockets . And the numbers will be at least that . No different than what happened in the canola seed Industry. It exploded from $2/lb to $15 in a relatively short time .
I am not here to bash seed growers at all , I am just stating that guys like Tom refuse to admit that this is going to cost primary producers a lot of money . He just spent the past 2 weeks making every excuse known in The industry to deflect attention to the fact stated above .
That’s the aggravation of it all ..
no different than the supporters of the carbon tax ...... just admit that it’s going to cost us all a lot of money we don’t have .
Growing more bushels to cover these costs is getting us nowhere but every one else in the Ag industry more money .
Then throw in Mother Nature in where we are at complete mercy of in terms yields ... not fancy seed , fertilizers or any other input or extra wealth transfer costs .
That is why most of us are saying ... enough already !!

[blackpowder]

Tom couldn't say poop if his mouth was full. But I can.
Getting into seed myself on the pulse side. It's not a mortgage lifter.
Seed growers aren't the enemy just the messenger.
$40/ac for wheat seed won't go far unless it's bred for something very special.

[furrowtickler]

Furrowtickler,
Our farm pedigreed seed production... is a matter of heritage... not profit based. As A CSGA member for 40 years... producing high quality planting seed is a matter of farm practice... not driven by profit. If 25% of our pedigreed seed production is not seeded as planting seed... it normally is not because of purity... we will not pedigree a crop that is impure... or of poor germination. Lack of demand for a variety... is the normal reason pedigreed seed is dumped as commercial grain... we are required to forecast demand often 2-3 years before planting seed sales... which is often harder for us to figure out before real seed demand actually is a market reality. Easier for Commercial growers to identify real increased value of a variety... after it has been tested through the pedigreed seed multiplication phase of introduction to grain farmers.

Again Tom that’s all good , I am not against what you do , it takes time and money to produce seed
But yet again , the absolute main point is ignored ..... this is going to cost the primary producers a lot of money we don’t have in growing cereals . That’s the point you won’t address.
An average farm will be $30,000 to $50,000 more for seed ... unless I am wrong .... where is that going to come from ? It’s a simple question you refuse to answer.

[TOM4CWB]

furrowtickler,
As I have said... and repeated... If there is no added value in seeds that become available... do not spend the extra resources to buy the variety. Simple. The ability to collect 'Intellectual Property' provided by plant breeders... exists today... without any modifications to the levy and royalty system in Canada. Distribution of the R&D funding sources/amounts is an arguing point. AC Barrie Wheat... is a good example of just how far varieties have advanced in the past 30 years. 7-15% looks to be the productivity gains... with real advancements in disease tolerance and agronomic efficiency... hard to claim real measurable change.
Has the real value to the grains sector actually been 11 to 1 ROI... hard to see that as a realistic outcome of the 100's of millions spent on cereal R&D. Soybeans and corn... have seen the big productivity gains over the past 30 years... the US average yearly production numbers are proof.
Canola is also a major benefactor of R&D in Canada. The genome of cereals is much more difficult to manipulate.

Again Tom that’s all good , I am not against what you do , it takes time and money to produce seed
But yet again , the absolute main point is ignored ..... this is going to cost the primary producers a lot of money we don’t have in growing cereals . That’s the point you won’t address.
An average farm will be $30,000 to $50,000 more for seed ... unless I am wrong .... where is that going to come from ? It’s a simple question you refuse to answer.

[furrowtickler]

furrowtickler,
As I have said... and repeated... If there is no added value in seeds that become available... do not spend the extra resources to buy the variety. Simple. The ability to collect 'Intellectual Property' provided by plant breeders... exists today... without any modifications to the levy and royalty system in Canada. Distribution of the R&D funding sources/amounts is an arguing point. AC Barrie Wheat... is a good example of just how far varieties have advanced in the past 30 years. 7-15% looks to be the productivity gains... with real advancements in disease tolerance and agronomic efficiency... hard to claim real measurable change.
Has the real value to the grains sector actually been 11 to 1 ROI... hard to see that as a realistic outcome of the 100's of millions spent on cereal R&D. Soybeans and corn... have seen the big productivity gains over the past 30 years... the US average yearly production numbers are proof.
Canola is also a major benefactor of R&D in Canada. The genome of cereals is much more difficult to manipulate.

Under this system we will virtually have no choice In the long term Tom , you know that .

[TOM4CWB]

Farmaholic,
For seed marketing, much of our pedigreed seed is marketed... through pools that multiple seed growers contribute seed stocks to. We strive to provide a good selection of promising varieties...
Then...depending on the choices planting seed consumers[grain farmers,wholesale sales to other seed retailers] after spring, remaining stocks of surplus pedigreed seed in inventory ... again after spring seeding... these then are sold as commercial grain if it appears to be the best option to the individual seed grower, who owns that particular excess pedigreed seed inventory.
Therefore only actual pedigreed planted seed that was sold.. is revenue for the yearly marketing pool... not the individuals seed stocks remaining.
As Secan Royalties paid... are pooled in this non-profit seed co.... Secan bids for new varieties... to provide new choices for future seed varieties... Secan is able to contract with individual plant breeders. Brandon wheat is a Secan variety... Royalties we seed growers and sellers collect... go 100% back to Secan.

Our seed retailers and contractors also deal in other seed companies varieties as well... like: Canterra, Alliance, FP Genetics, Northstar, Seednet... and also seed canola companies...
Working on providing best selections possible... for planting seed buyers in our region... therefore we do grow many multiple varieties... trying to provide the best genetics for our local grain farmers wanting to buy planting seed each year.
Sincerely,
Tom

Geez Tom, hardly seems worth the effort, I guess I'll have to take your word.

50% cert sold as commercial because seed quality can't be met? Picked the wrong variety, hence no one wants it? Asking too much(after royalties, cleaning and handling, certification and inspection costs are all accounted for)?

I can honestly say I don't understand the "co-op" marketing thing....are you wholesaling it to a "Co-op" retailer or are you talking the Secan Co-operative dividend type payment.

Thanks in advance.

[walterm]

Tom do you have to buy new seed every year or can you seed your own Certified Seed and then sell it's product as certified seed or seed it again and sell the next years production as Certified? Honestly don't know how the system works!

[bucket]

Farmaholic,
For seed marketing, much of our pedigreed seed is marketed... through pools that multiple seed growers contribute seed stocks to. We strive to provide a good selection of promising varieties...
Then...depending on the choices planting seed consumers[grain farmers,wholesale sales to other seed retailers] after spring, remaining stocks of surplus pedigreed seed in inventory ... again after spring seeding... these then are sold as commercial grain if it appears to be the best option to the individual seed grower, who owns that particular excess pedigreed seed inventory.
Therefore only actual pedigreed planted seed that was sold.. is revenue for the yearly marketing pool... not the individuals seed stocks remaining.
As Secan Royalties paid... are pooled in this non-profit seed co.... Secan bids for new varieties... to provide new choices for future seed varieties... Secan is able to contract with individual plant breeders. Brandon wheat is a Secan variety... Royalties we seed growers and sellers collect... go 100% back to Secan.

Our seed retailers and contractors also deal in other seed companies varieties as well... like: Canterra, Alliance, FP Genetics, Northstar, Seednet... and also seed canola companies...
Working on providing best selections possible... for planting seed buyers in our region... therefore we do grow many multiple varieties... trying to provide the best genetics for our local grain farmers wanting to buy planting seed each year.
Sincerely,
Tom

Farmaholic....

this is why seed people like TOM4HIMSELF sells common seed for a premium over market prices.....that way nothing for the coop.....

There is nothing wrong with older varieties with average production when the ****ing transportion system can't handle more production...


Maybe you should try another hunger strike for your seed tax lobby, Tom?

[farmaholic]

Farmaholic....

this is why seed people like TOM4HIMSELF sells common seed for a premium over market prices.....that way nothing for the coop.....

There is nothing wrong with older varieties with average production when the ****ing transportion system can't handle more production...


Maybe you should try another hunger strike for your seed tax lobby, Tom?

Are you saying some seed growers might be "brown bagging" their own certified seed?

Hmmm? Interesting concept. Less money for Breeder's R&D

[Guest]

Wmoebis,
It cannot be absolutely proved... BUT
Triffid contamination appears to have been magnified through plant breeding stocks... after being contaminated with the triffid genetics at the top levels... then spread through the breeder seed/pedigreed seed system ... with contamination very difficult to identify...
years of reproduction went by[perhaps over 10 years]...
Then it was very difficult and costly to completely rebuild seed varieties and stocks from the top down.

very , very, very hard to figure who ****ed the flax market up with triffid ( that nobody. ****ing wanted anyway , except for the leach pricks that wanted to sell it) lol , why didn't they put their god damn ex rcmp force on it , no money in it for them I guess
but very easy to go after some farmer who brown bagged seed
in the end they just said "**** it , farmers can pay for the next ten years"
you lost all your credibility when you laid that cost on us

[walterm]

very , very, very hard to figure who ****ed the flax market up with triffid ( that nobody. ****ing wanted anyway , except for the leach pricks that wanted to sell it) lol , why didn't they put their god damn ex rcmp force on it , no money in it for them I guess
but very easy to go after some farmer who brown bagged seed
in the end they just said "**** it , farmers can pay for the next ten years"
you lost all your credibility when you laid that cost on us

Have heard 2 plausible theories:
1- There was never any Triffid to begin with it was just a made up issue to see what reaction would be and how hard it would be to flush an entire system to get rid of old stock and bring in all new. Fast forward PBR UPOV91 and what we are facing today.

2 - We know that only a few seed growers had access to Triffid in the first place and they were growers that would give seed industry and maybe some producer groups a bad name if they were held accountable so cover up implemented.

On another note end of this month is when Grain Companies have to have CNHR flushed out as CWRS. I wonder if it is all gone and accounted for. Will there be a full 3rd party audit of whole system?