Complexities of carbon sequestration.

[grassfarmer]

Thought this was a good article highlighting the complexities around carbon sequestration in relation to agriculture.

https://www.producer.com/2018/01/carbon-hits-east-west-divide/

Sorry, you'll have to cut and paste - haven't been able to hotlink anything since the adverts disappeared from the site. Where did the link option go?

[bucket]

The only complexity to this is paying farmers for their contribution. ...

They will offer up credits to industry that have done sfa....and hAve higher benchmarks to start from....whereas farmers made changes decades ago and have reduced emissions and sequestered and not been paid....

The government are using our efforts to pat themselves on the back....

[blackpowder]

A marketplace designed around a psuedo commodity that we dont know a lot about. We cant really control it or count it. We cant physically trade it. And it produces nothing of real monetary gain. Someones gonna be left holding the bag. A few others have already made a bunch.

[furrowtickler]

The only complexity to this is paying farmers for their contribution. ...

They will offer up credits to industry that have done sfa....and hAve higher benchmarks to start from....whereas farmers made changes decades ago and have reduced emissions and sequestered and not been paid....

The government are using our efforts to pat themselves on the back....

Exactly...

[grassfarmer]

Yeah, lets just keep whining that we aren't getting paid as much as we should for a service we don't even know if we are providing and ignore the facts and politics surrounding the issue. Always worked well in the past hasn't it?

[Klause]

Yeah, lets just keep whining that we aren't getting paid as much as we should for a service we don't even know if we are providing and ignore the facts and politics surrounding the issue. Always worked well in the past hasn't it?

Politics of the issue are the problem


"Oh, this would only benefit people in the west. We can't do that!!!! On top of that it'll hurt people in the East. OMG!!!!"

[bucket]

If you are an industry with high emissions and buy equipment or change processes to reduce emissions you will be given credits you can sell....BUT ...if you are a farmer that buys a tractor that has less emissions and change your farm g practices you receive **** all....

Yup sounds like a good deal....and don't forget the industry can recoup their costs of the improvements while farmers can't. ..

I wish the farmer representatives would get their head out of their ass when negotiating on our behalf.

[grassfarmer]

I wish the farmer representatives would get their head out of their ass when negotiating on our behalf.

Which farmer representatives? As far as I've seen only the NFU and KAP here in MB are addressing the issue of climate change/mitigation/carbon sequestration. Most of the rest are ignoring the issue or claiming climate change doesn't exist which would appear to agree with the consensus of the minority of farmers who happen to post on Agriville. Can't have it both ways - can't cry out for money for helping address the problem and at the same time argue there is no problem!

[Guest]

Politics of the issue are the problem


"Oh, this would only benefit people in the west. We can't do that!!!! On top of that it'll hurt people in the East. OMG!!!!"

and therein lies the problem

[Hamloc]

A couple thoughts on this Grassfarmer. The biggest consideration here is politics. Eastern Canada most use tillage, western Canada mostly no-till so carbon sequestration only happens in western Canada. Also seems to be related issues with forests being large carbon sinks some years, not so much in years with large forest fires. Also if farmers push for carbon credits does that open us to scrutiny on nitrogen emissions from fertilizer and manure or methane emissions from livestock. In your case sequestering carbon on managed grassland, if you push for recognition of this how do you argue against methane emissions. Every kg of methane is the same as 25 kg of C02 according to climate change proponents. According to the same proponents we only have 12-16 years left of emitting C02 at present rates before we meet our ceiling of C02 in the atmosphere, any more than that and we will excide our theoretical temperature rise of 1.5*C. Do you really believe that any country that signed onto the Paris accord will meet it's target?

Getting back to sequestration. I think provinces might implement some programming. Alberta has one, was in it for a couple years, didn't pay enough in my opinion to make it worthwhile, plus in wet years any cultivation to correct ruts or to dry soil disqualified those acres. Besides I don't agree with carbon taxes so I decided it was wrong to be payed for selling carbon credits.

One other question Grassfarmer, do you believe that the farming industry as a whole can become carbon neutral by 2030? Or society as a whole for that matter?

[furrowtickler]

Is this being perused in Canada ?
Grassy what’s your thoughts ?

[blackpowder]

I for one feel i still get paid handsomely by the hour for the time it takes to fill out my carbon credit forms.
As much as others up the chain make, or as chicken shit as it can be. I dont feel hypocritical taking money from a legal scheme/scam others make a good living off of.
Someday this whole carbon thing will be taught in university classes studying whole population marketing. A classic either side of the fence your on.

[grassfarmer]

A couple thoughts on this Grassfarmer. The biggest consideration here is politics. Eastern Canada most use tillage, western Canada mostly no-till so carbon sequestration only happens in western Canada. Also seems to be related issues with forests being large carbon sinks some years, not so much in years with large forest fires. Also if farmers push for carbon credits does that open us to scrutiny on nitrogen emissions from fertilizer and manure or methane emissions from livestock. In your case sequestering carbon on managed grassland, if you push for recognition of this how do you argue against methane emissions. Every kg of methane is the same as 25 kg of C02 according to climate change proponents. According to the same proponents we only have 12-16 years left of emitting C02 at present rates before we meet our ceiling of C02 in the atmosphere, any more than that and we will excide our theoretical temperature rise of 1.5*C. Do you really believe that any country that signed onto the Paris accord will meet it's target?

Getting back to sequestration. I think provinces might implement some programming. Alberta has one, was in it for a couple years, didn't pay enough in my opinion to make it worthwhile, plus in wet years any cultivation to correct ruts or to dry soil disqualified those acres. Besides I don't agree with carbon taxes so I decided it was wrong to be payed for selling carbon credits.

One other question Grassfarmer, do you believe that the farming industry as a whole can become carbon neutral by 2030? Or society as a whole for that matter?

East/West politics are one consideration from a Governments point of view, but the timing issue is valid too - ie what Harper signed up for was to reduce emissions relative to 2005 levels so that does exclude a lot of the supposed benefits of zero till because it was being done prior to that. I am aware of this issue with grassland too - taking land out of annual crop and seeding to permanent forage changes sequestration levels suddenly - but it plateaus after a few years. Any discussion of agriculture and carbon sequestration involves considering emissions also - it has to or its a waste of time discussing. I think we should be pushing for this discussion and more research like that being quoted in the article I posted. I don't think this topic will go away if we hide from it or deny climate change. I'm not hopeful we can meet agreed targets in the short term or be carbon neutral by 2030 but we can certainly move in that direction and I believe we should.

Is this being perused in Canada ?
Grassy what’s your thoughts ?

Likely been perused by some, not being pursued in Canada though.
We've had this specific discussion about 3 times already so not worth rehashing it again.

[bucket]

Yeah, lets just keep whining that we aren't getting paid as much as we should for a service we don't even know if we are providing and ignore the facts and politics surrounding the issue. Always worked well in the past hasn't it?

Good questions but how did Trudeau artifically make up the price of carbon?

My wheat should be 20 bucks a bushel but for some reason its true value is determined by a commodity exchange whether I like it or not...

[SASKFARMER3]

Grass were not whining its just why shouldn't the group that pollutes the worst in Canada pay the ones who save the planet us farmers.

This was a mistake Brad made. If shit for brains wanted the carbon tax then Sure send the money in Billions back to Sask Alberta and Manitoba for the sins of BC Quebec and Ontario.

Yea the carbon tax would of been dead.