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Jan 18, 2021 | 10:50
1
I haven't read all the details but would like a discussion here to shorten that effort...
A few things I would like to see....
1. You dont leave an elevator without a paper copy of the unload or at least accessible via smartphone.
2. You can lock in protein spreads at time of contract signing or have the option to leave that open ...although lately it doesnt matter in durum.
3. better reporting from the CGC
4. A code of practice for grain companies to know how to properly grade grain and have routine exams....with certification of those buying my grain.....That is a rebuttal for the code of practice for farmers...
5. There should be more offices of the CGC..this idea of Saskatoon and Weyburn discourages the use of CGC
6. Payment available at scale ...not 15 working days after the fact...
7. When signing contracts with graincos the railways can be notified of future required cars....
Mandatory sales reporting to an independent regulator...
Some of the above may not be relevant ...just starting the conversation.
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Jan 18, 2021 | 13:18
2
I like the email of the unload but sometimes emails just disappear. Txt is go too. When I unload water or oil to secure. I just send them a pic of the bill of laden and they send me a pic of the unload. Trucking is going to electronic dispatch. Make up the paperless bill of laden , elevator fills in the unload results, etransfer cash to your account.
I like dealing with a good elevator. Saves a lot of stress
Mandatory sales reporting should be mandatory
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Jan 18, 2021 | 14:17
3
You know it's funny, the first time I got one of these grain purchase agreements, not that many years ago, I did like a person would do with any normal contract, like say a building lease or some thing like that. I scratched out all the lines or sentences that I didn't like, and initialed the change, and added a few of my own conditions. Well when I presented this to the grain buyer he was floored. He told me you don't have the option to change the contract, you sign it as it is, and if you didn't sign the contract I would never sell grain there again.
OK, now I see farmers face, so now I just make extra sure of my grade, delivery points and as many things as I do have control over as I can. What else can a person do?
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Jan 18, 2021 | 14:34
4
Bucket Some of what you are asking for is already in the existing ACT it is the enforcement part that is lacking. When Ritz closed the Office of Assistant Commissioners instead of opening A Grain Farmers Advocacy office he screwed you.
1- Is handled but not enforced in SEC 61 (1) of the act.
4- Is handled but not enforced in SEC 61 (2) The prescribed manor is in the Regs and described in the Grain Guide.
5- CGC had lots of offices and were looking at more until inward inspection was done away with. Now independant 3rd party paid for by the grain company. When CGC used to go on site to load cars at elevator it not only guaranteed that what was needed at coast was what was going to be there when needed to load waiting ships it also was helpful to elevators on learning proper grading procedures as they would often be watching inspectors and asking questions.
It is the CGC's mandate to enforce the ACT are they doing that is the question? You can change the ACT all you want but will it get enforced?
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Jan 18, 2021 | 16:00
5
We get paper receipts at both elevators I deliver to, am hearing that's not the case everywhere. One requires my signature, the other does not. Over the years lots of times I'm visiting and dont pay close enough attention. I have had 3 loads this winter I have made them make a change to the receipt while sitting in the driveway. 2 were incorrect tare weights, realize there is some scale fluctuations with wind etc but these were excess of 100kgs and not in my favour. The third was 11.9 dockage instead of 1.9. Not suggesting these were intentional just saying you cant just leave it and hope for the best.
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Jan 18, 2021 | 17:22
6
Viterra sends instant email of unload. Pioneer has paper. If weigh/dockage/grade out of whack both have been quick to correct. Happy so far. Yes not much a peasant farmer can control.
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Jan 18, 2021 | 18:00
7
Never leave without scale ticket. One grainco i was hauling too lost a 42 tonne load on their computer system. We were able to provide time,date,and our load copy. Just for laughs try buying a load from a grainco without any papertrail.
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Jan 18, 2021 | 18:01
8
Grain graders should all be certified and even licensed (like mandatory Class 1 A drivers). They should all be held accountable as well as their direct bosses for irregularities, grade, moisture, protein, dockage, etc
CGC does have a roll to play, enforcement.
Producer car loading facilities should be encouraged in the new Grain Act, if for nothing else a price discovery mechanism for farmers.
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Jan 18, 2021 | 18:24
9
 Originally Posted by Rareearth
Grain graders should all be certified and even licensed (like mandatory Class 1 A drivers). They should all be held accountable as well as their direct bosses for irregularities, grade, moisture, protein, dockage, etc
CGC does have a roll to play, enforcement.
Producer car loading facilities should be encouraged in the new Grain Act, if for nothing else a price discovery mechanism for farmers.
The CGC is in charge of administering and enforcing the Grain Act. Google and read Sec 105, 106 and 107. Then ask why 107 has never been enforced if they know that elevators are miss representing quality including dockage. Just read it how many employees would keep misrepresenting if they knew they were liable.
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Jan 18, 2021 | 18:31
10
Well, without research here goes.
Educate me later.
Divorce CIGI and CGC if it isn't already.
Producer associations should be more responsible for the industry, or get no funding. They really have no power at all right now. Put them in charge of making CIGI pay for itself. Something like it is needed. Remove the need to have federal ministerial approval for anything.
100 years and we still wait for Ottawas' blessing and funding.
Then burn the CGC to the ground.
From the ashes: Have a weekly export figures. My God how hard could it be?? Dollar figures are private info.
Simplify grading method. Modernize it. Align it with buying specs. Reduce reliance on KVD. Got to be a way.
SGS and Intertec already do the work under contract. Just monitor.
If you want to lock in a grade spread months ahead you will be paying for that risk somehow. Keep CGC out of it.
License buyers as now. Apply credit insurance. That industry will charge accordingly to the buyers score.
Covid has hastened paperless contract and delivery info. Great, we have the technology.
Empty their bank account. Move them to Saskatoon or somewhere out of that govt town. Start over.
Hasn't been looked into since '71?
Stockholm Syndrome??
Get the federal politics out of it.
Have it earn it's budget directly from the industry on fee for service. Annual reporting.
Just some quick ramblings without flesh. Start shooting lol.
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Jan 18, 2021 | 20:06
11
Originally Posted by blackpowder
Have it earn it's budget directly from the industry on fee for service.
I think service fees are how the CGC got to have 130 million laying around. They say they are working on it
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Jan 18, 2021 | 23:01
12
Originally Posted by farming101
I think service fees are how the CGC got to have 130 million laying around. They say they are working on it
Yup, we'll see that money again.
Charging the rate for stuff they no longer do.
Value for the dollar on necessary services. Published. Paid by the grain buyer.
What do you do with a building that's so old it's foundation is rotten and hasn't had renos in fifty years? Dig a pit beside it.
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Jan 19, 2021 | 06:05
13
Originally Posted by blackpowder
Yup, we'll see that money again.
Charging the rate for stuff they no longer do.
Value for the dollar on necessary services. Published. Paid by the grain buyer.
What do you do with a building that's so old it's foundation is rotten and hasn't had renos in fifty years? Dig a pit beside it.
Let it collapse inside itself....the pit for it to fall into is already there.
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Jan 19, 2021 | 06:32
14
There is alot wrong with the CGC . While they claim on radio yesterday to providing information to farmers over the last 100 years ...it seems the information is neither timely or easily accessible.
In the 1970s it might be reasonable to wait for the Western Producer to report the information but in todays world there is no reason to be months behind and secretive about grain movement and accurate data that should be at farmers fingertips...
Its not the Chuck Penner's and the Marlene Boersch paying for the CGC ...its farmers....and I really dont like the fact i have to hear it from them first at a cropshere presentation...with their deer in the headlights presentation...
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Jan 19, 2021 | 08:17
15
What do farmers want? Do they want the elevators to set the rules and run the whole thing their way? Just close the CGC office.
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Jan 19, 2021 | 08:26
16
Originally Posted by wmoebis
What do farmers want? Do they want the elevators to set the rules and run the whole thing their way? Just close the CGC office.
I would like it if I call the CGC instead of them saying " sell it subject to CGC grading" they get in their vehicles and drive out to see WTF the complaint is about...
And if you call and ask why Moose Jaw Viterra doesnt have a scale after 100 years of operation....they go out and issue a notice...
Otherwise they may as well let the grain industry regulate themselves....FFS.
Regulations not enforced is inexcusable...
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Jan 19, 2021 | 08:52
17
Originally Posted by bucket
I would like it if I call the CGC instead of them saying " sell it subject to CGC grading" they get in their vehicles and drive out to see WTF the complaint is about...
And if you call and ask why Moose Jaw Viterra doesnt have a scale after 100 years of operation....they go out and issue a notice...
Otherwise they may as well let the grain industry regulate themselves....FFS.
Regulations not enforced is inexcusable...
Your singing to the choir!
But lets have some constructive discussion how to change it. The minister of AG is giving us opportunity to voice our opinion lets do that. I don't think throwing the baby out with the bath water again is the right answer. There was some changes made 4 or 5 years ago that cost farmers over 100 million dollars and luckily the change of gov't caught it. Lets not let that kind of mismanagement happen again because as proven nobody pays for screw up except farmers.
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Jan 19, 2021 | 09:05
18
Originally Posted by wmoebis
Your singing to the choir!
But lets have some constructive discussion how to change it. The minister of AG is giving us opportunity to voice our opinion lets do that. I don't think throwing the baby out with the bath water again is the right answer. There was some changes made 4 or 5 years ago that cost farmers over 100 million dollars and luckily the change of gov't caught it. Lets not let that kind of mismanagement happen again because as proven nobody pays for screw up except farmers.
Yes I know but try explaining that to a politician that says..." cant get involved in private business " and then explain the fact that is what the CGC is supposed to be doing.....
Its a bit of a run around...
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Jan 19, 2021 | 09:23
19
Originally Posted by bucket
Yes I know but try explaining that to a politician that says..." cant get involved in private business " and then explain the fact that is what the CGC is supposed to be doing.....
Its a bit of a run around...
Believe me I know and understand. Part of the problem is lack of knowledge of rights and responsibilities of each part of the industry. How many people from farmers through to elevators to end users have ever even looked at the rule book (grain act) The CGC has all power to control the industry but nobody uses it. How do we change that? Writing a new ACT is note going to change it.
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Jan 19, 2021 | 11:26
20
All good points.
We seem to have a legacy of mistrust and antagonism in the industry between producers, handlers, and regulators.
As with the board, a scorched earth restart might be the way to rid ourselves of that legacy.
The free market works if we let it. Collusion indictments and settlements indicate this. We can do this.
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Jan 19, 2021 | 11:37
21
Originally Posted by Stormin
You know it's funny, the first time I got one of these grain purchase agreements, not that many years ago, I did like a person would do with any normal contract, like say a building lease or some thing like that. I scratched out all the lines or sentences that I didn't like, and initialed the change, and added a few of my own conditions. Well when I presented this to the grain buyer he was floored. He told me you don't have the option to change the contract, you sign it as it is, and if you didn't sign the contract I would never sell grain there again.
OK, now I see farmers face, so now I just make extra sure of my grade, delivery points and as many things as I do have control over as I can. What else can a person do?
I did the same thing with crossing out lines I didn't like....couldnt sign a contract at home for close to a year...had to go to elevator and sign it....basically the same line...you cant change a contract.
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Jan 21, 2021 | 10:22
22
Also being discussed in other circles: getting the CGC out of export inspection so the terminals can hire their own inspectors( conflict of interest?) and combining several minor classes of wheat into one catch-all category.
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Jan 21, 2021 | 10:28
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What do you think happens now??
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Jan 21, 2021 | 10:29
24
Originally Posted by CptnObvious
Also being discussed in other circles: getting the CGC out of export inspection so the terminals can hire their own inspectors( conflict of interest?) and combining several minor classes of wheat into one catch-all category.
You bring up a good point...
I am not sure why there was another class of wheat brought in to cover off de-registered wheat with the CNHR....
Also I notice there is no protein scales for durum and some graincos are now buying durum 2CWAD or better...
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Jan 21, 2021 | 11:37
25
Originally Posted by blackpowder
What do you think happens now??
The CGC MUST inspect all export vessels for grade and dockage. About 80% of loads are also inspected by private agents for other factors - falling #, etc.
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Jan 21, 2021 | 11:46
26
Originally Posted by CptnObvious
The CGC MUST inspect all export vessels for grade and dockage. About 80% of loads are also inspected by private agents for other factors - falling #, etc.
Where did you get the 80% number from? I asked when I was on port tour and nobody would say they said that was confidential. Just like how many cars are showing up at port that don't make the grade specs that are suppose to be in the car. Or the audit reports of the dockage taken by elevators compared to the actual dockage at port or removed.
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Jan 21, 2021 | 11:48
27
Originally Posted by CptnObvious
The CGC MUST inspect all export vessels for grade and dockage. About 80% of loads are also inspected by private agents for other factors - falling #, etc.
Another problem I see for local elevators within their own company is,,, they clean and grade to inspected standards and they still have to worry about the unload at the coast...
Its mind numbing ....Cleaned grain loaded on a train should be ready for direct loading on a vessel...CGC involved or not...
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Jan 21, 2021 | 11:55
28
Originally Posted by bucket
Another problem I see for local elevators within their own company is,,, they clean and grade to inspected standards and they still have to worry about the unload at the coast...
Its mind numbing ....Cleaned grain loaded on a train should be ready for direct loading on a vessel...CGC involved or not...
Unload inspection (inward inspection) at port is optional CGC doesn't do it anymore the only reason I can see that the grain companies hire 3rd party (SGS etc.) is they don't trust their own elevator graders to grade accurately. But they can grade good enough to assess your grain.
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Jan 21, 2021 | 12:23
29
An SGS certificate tells the buyer it meets certain specs. SGS is the world's largest certifier in all commodities i believe.
Canadian grades dont really mean anything outside of Winnipeg or our imaginations.
Although they have a use in predicting certain milling and baking characteristics.
Currently we are paying for a CGC inspector to issue a cert that isn't used and collect volume data that isn't published adequately. And they have a surplus.
I also wonder why the local loop track terminal has one large HRS and one CPS bin when the majority of its shipments are wheat.
Producers getting paid or discounted for qualities is where the cgc grading system belongs. It needs to align with how its sold. Funny, since board gone most of my wheat has been bought as one grade.
I believe we're paying for duplication of services, antiquated specs, outdated pmnt insurances and poor export reports.
These are just my beliefs and if anyone has info to clarify where i am wrong, that is the use of this forum.
Not a platform to perpetuate a pre information age us or them mindset.
Burn it down and start over. We have a few big issues to work on in this industry and we dither on this one as if it were 1950.
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Jan 21, 2021 | 12:43
30
Farmers and farm reps...dither on every issue...
Its been 9 years since the conservatives gutted agristability and in the 9 years participation has dropped right off....and farm groups are still promoting it....scrap it...
Same goes for the CGC if they cant get their shit together...130 million and when you ask a question they say to blackball yourself by telling the elevator to sell it subject to grade....I dont get the probed sample to look at from 50 feet away...stupid. I have no idea what goes in their sample bag....Cant enter an elevator's grading room...
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