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What happens to land prices during western separation(or not)?

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    What happens to land prices during western separation(or not)?

    Seeing two different paths forward from here, either:
    1)We do nothing in the face of more of the same federal economy killing policies, which will continue to erode our currency leading to inflation which inevitably affects land prices likely not in terms of USD, but at least in CAD.

    2) We reach the breaking point and separation becomes reality ( and goes without saying, acceptance into the US). During the initial turmoil, Canadian currency will be drastically affected leading to inflation, possibly quite high. Uncertainty will cause investment to be scared away, obviously a negative for a real estate market partially propped up by outside investment, what would be the net effect of those two conflicting factors?

    As separation looks more realistic, there will be mass exodus in both directions, die hard socialists will vacate the west, while anyone capable of doing math will leave the sinking ship that will be the ROC, and move here before the window closes and they would then have to immigrate, a much more complicated process. Not sure that could be quantified in advance, but for easy math, if anywhere close to the same percentage of westerners get out as socialist refugees from the ROC move in, it would be a large net influx. Demand exceeds supply, a positive for real estate values, a rising tide lifts all boats, and probably safe to assume that a disproportionate number of them will not be city dwellers.

    Once we are part of the Union, and the shackles of over taxation, over regulation, and the anti-industry policies are gone, investment will return, and there will be an unprecedented economic boom. Whether or not agriculture participates in that boom may be irrelevant, if investment money is flowing in, and people are moving in, land prices will go along for the ride. I say that from my local perspective where land values have had little correlation to their agricultural value for decades.

    Or a 3rd option, maybe we should be more optimistic, perhaps responsible governance will return, world trade will normalize, and the debt driven party will go on indefinitely, taking land prices with it. And pigs might fly too...


    My take away, is that even by( or in spite of) ignoring the fundamentals of the agricultural sector, I just don't see a scenario where land prices crash and burn. And I am not optimistic about ag product markets going forward, this cycle is far from over. But then, my perspective is biased by the area I am in, where there is a diversity of industries, and land has recreational and residential value, often far exceeding its agricultural value. The very real ( and eventually inevitable) threat of debt driven deflation is always at the top of my mind when making any investment decisions, and that obviously would be the biggest threat to land values, but these other factors just might overwhelm that.

    What do you think? And yes, I know what Grassfarmer et. al. think about separation, so lets not rehash that but look at what happens in that event.
    Last edited by AlbertaFarmer5; Jun 20, 2019, 12:10.

    #2
    Did grass leave Scotland because don’t they want to separate🤥💩. Maybe we can get lucky here

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
      Seeing two different paths forward from here, either:
      1)We do nothing in the face of more of the same federal economy killing policies, which will continue to erode our currency leading to inflation which inevitably affects land prices likely not in terms of USD, but at least in CAD.

      2) We reach the breaking point and separation becomes reality ( and goes without saying, acceptance into the US). During the initial turmoil, Canadian currency will be drastically affected leading to inflation, possibly quite high. Uncertainty will cause investment to be scared away, obviously a negative for a real estate market partially propped up by outside investment, what would be the net effect of those two conflicting factors?

      As separation looks more realistic, there will be mass exodus in both directions, die hard socialists will vacate the west, while anyone capable of doing math will leave the sinking ship that will be the ROC, and move here before the window closes and they would then have to immigrate, a much more complicated process. Not sure that could be quantified in advance, but for easy math, if anywhere close to the same percentage of westerners get out as socialist refugees from the ROC move in, it would be a large net influx. Demand exceeds supply, a positive for real estate values, a rising tide lifts all boats, and probably safe to assume that a disproportionate number of them will not be city dwellers.

      Once we are part of the Union, and the shackles of over taxation, over regulation, and the anti-industry policies are gone, investment will return, and there will be an unprecedented economic boom. Whether or not agriculture participates in that boom may be irrelevant, if investment money is flowing in, and people are moving in, land prices will go along for the ride. I say that from my local perspective where land values have had little correlation to their agricultural value for decades.

      Or a 3rd option, maybe we should be more optimistic, perhaps responsible governance will return, world trade will normalize, and the debt driven party will go on indefinitely, taking land prices with it. And pigs might fly too...


      My take away, is that even by( or in spite of) ignoring the fundamentals of the agricultural sector, I just don't see a scenario where land prices crash and burn. And I am not optimistic about ag product markets going forward, this cycle is far from over. But then, my perspective is biased by the area I am in, where there is a diversity of industries, and land has recreational and residential value, often far exceeding its agricultural value. The very real ( and eventually inevitable) threat of debt driven deflation is always at the top of my mind when making any investment decisions, and that obviously would be the biggest threat to land values, but these other factors just might overwhelm that.

      What do you think? And yes, I know what Grassfarmer et. al. think about separation, so lets not rehash that but look at what happens in that event.
      Are you kidding? Boom alright once we hit bottom. We d be so exploited by the us if you think it’s bad now just watch but hopefully not.
      The fat cats in the oil industry would own everything and everyone.
      What kind of government would we have? Provincial government? A reigning government above that? Start paying the native claims boom alright we re broke. Oil is done in 20 to 25 years quit making short term millionaires for the oil industry all based on this bulkshit scare tactics of separating. Start focusing on what the world is going to want in the future. FOOD

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by the big wheel View Post
        Are you kidding? Boom alright once we hit bottom. We d be so exploited by the us if you think it’s bad now just watch but hopefully not.
        The fat cats in the oil industry would own everything and everyone.
        What kind of government would we have? Provincial government? A reigning government above that? Start paying the native claims boom alright we re broke. Oil is done in 20 to 25 years quit making short term millionaires for the oil industry all based on this bulkshit scare tactics of separating. Start focusing on what the world is going to want in the future. FOOD
        Perhaps you didn't read any of my post before responding. Not trying to start a debate about separation.

        Put this a different way.

        Land is by far the biggest asset most of us own. We need to be aware of any trends that will affect that. This is one emerging trend that could have massive effects, dwarfing all others, whether you agree with it or not, and whether it comes to anything or not, it is happening, and it is already affecting asset values. Worst case scenario, it drags on for decades and accomplishes nothing but driving out investment, that is a very real risk we need to factor in to our operations. Best case, the ROC wakes up and realizes the threat before it even gets off the ground. These are factors mostly beyond our control, but it doesn't mean we need to be completely sideswiped by them if we can prepare.

        Comment


          #5
          I see nothing changing with land values, at least in this area. Only farmers are buying land here. Prices show too, much lower prices than any other area. Other areas where there is intense outside investor pressure, probably drop a lot.

          Comment


            #6
            AF, seperation doesnt work unless we become some sort of US territory. We need to use their currency, their trade routes and links and access to their capital. Doesnt work any other way so in that scenario, land prices immediatly go up on the difference in currency. Once their capital comes in and develops the place values will increase dramatically.

            Its sort of like the reverse of equalization. We pay for high speed rail in Montreal while we drive on gravel roads. The US system works the opposite. They flood rural areas with cash.

            Comment


              #7
              President Jason Kenny will make sure the price of land, like the price of oil, will continue its upward trend remaining strong.

              Comment


                #8
                Young expérienced farming couple from Ontario with two young kids moving into the farm next door. Sold their ON farm. Their neighbourhood was getting a little more than interesting for them. They are sooo happy to be in the West. Sold for high prices. If Skippy wins, expect a flood of buyers? Pars
                Last edited by parsley; Jun 20, 2019, 16:31. Reason: Incorrect spelling

                Comment


                  #9
                  Kenny just has to announce intention to seperate and give canadians a choice. Live with skippy and his cabal or come settle down over trillions of resources. There is nothing under the ground in the GTA, vancouver and Montreal. Probably a million people move in here the next day.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by jazz View Post
                    AF, seperation doesnt work unless we become some sort of US territory. We need to use their currency, their trade routes and links and access to their capital. Doesnt work any other way so in that scenario.
                    Agreed, and that is why I don't even consider the ramifications of any other scenario.
                    Glad you added your input, as your are one of the few who seem to "get it". In the long term, I'm sure your outcome is correct. But what about the short term, How would the broader real estate market respond to turmoil from Negotiations and threats?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by tweety View Post
                      President Jason Kenny will make sure the price of land, like the price of oil, will continue its upward trend remaining strong.
                      I'm trying to understand the value in this post. Do you think Kenny would have a realistic opportunity to become president of the US after we join? How would the rules around Presidents having to be born in the US affect an Albertan?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        AF think of the demography calculus in the US. The democrats are trying to keep the immigration freeforall just long enough so they can flip texas and maybe another state or two. Then just like CA, it will never be Republican again. Trump is trying to round the illegals up and deport them so its whackamole time. But surely some GOP are looking at East BC, AB, SK and MB as a buffer to that demographic. You would have 4 or 5 million wealthy conservative voters instantly. Quebec can go join France and Ontario and vancouver can go F off somewhere. maybe thats actually the plan, crack up canada and divy out the spoils.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
                          I'm trying to understand the value in this post. Do you think Kenny would have a realistic opportunity to become president of the US after we join? How would the rules around Presidents having to be born in the US affect an Albertan?
                          Ted Cruz was born in Calgary so Kenny should have a chance..

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Obama was born in Africa according to a
                            Stable mental genius that doesn’t even know where his father was born. Lmao hahahahaha

                            Comment


                              #15
                              ‘Tis Impt for thé farm community to be solvent enough to withstand a few tough years, by hunkering down, mentoring, helping each other, and keeping expectations tethered. Land is always extremely valuable. Worth dying for, if you study history.

                              Your work ethic should be recognized as a tenable asset. Western farmers are a well-educated homogenous culture. And experienced in so many areas. Independent thinkers. And decision makers. You don’t need hand holding and welfare. And very important is your practical ag knowledge and skills . Unbelievable slice of human beings! You just don’t take time to reflect upon it. You’re admired whilst the Skippy McF’s despise you.

                              Take the time to think about the results of Norway suing Sweden for divorce. No death. No war. No hard feelings. Norway thrives. Prepare. Work hard. Plan for the worst so you enjoy the best. Pars
                              Last edited by parsley; Jun 20, 2019, 16:34. Reason: Punctuation inserted by auto correct

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