Seed Synergy... what does our Canadian seed system.. need to do?

[macdon02]

Excuse me while I throw up - all "working together" and "cooperating for a greater good" does not reflect the reality of the current situation. It's a parasitic arrangement at best in much of Canadian agriculture and the parasites are in danger of killing the host. You're just getting too greedy - even if you are only a pimp for Big Seed.

I don't see a pile of seed cleaning equipment listed in the RB wish catalogue. The Canadian seed cos aren't dropping like flies either. Pretty sure the big mergers had zero exposure to Canadian cereal/ pulse seed. Oh except for the rup wheat spill... that got swept conveniently under the rug. Well said Grass!

[malleefarmer]

errr can someone explain the situation again in 2 or 3 sentences?

yep we pay 3.30 to 4.40 end point royalty collected and distrubted by buyers here. No one blinks a eye lid.
after about 5 years if you still have your farmer retained seed of that variety is more than likely supersceded and no royalty paid.

and sorry tom as for grain consumer wants etc etc my comment is i think canada and australia are both premium wheat producers quality and specs buyers want BUT BUT they wont buy it they go to ruskies or ukraine were ever and buy cheap wheat and blend a little canadian or oz and babooshka they have what they want.

the world wants cheap food winge and moan thats the fact. So breed higher yielding types without quality specs is the go.

but its self defeating need some sort of market differentiation but not a single desk.

another pet peave been showing interest in agronomy since i was about 16 yeah back when i was a virgin woops sorry farma......i digress.........but every year new beaut variety of wheat out yields previous by 8% rinse repeat next year and so on and so on well i should be growing about a effing 100 bushels by now.

think i got off topic.......

[TOM4CWB]

WD9
If seed [PLANT BREEDERS &]company's DO NOT actually come up with an innovative and truly profitable product, farmers shouldn't buy it[new varieties]... 100% agree. Continue growing what is best... at no increased cost.UPOV/PBR IS IN PLACE NOW. Seed Synergy needs to efficiently provide stock planting seed... the goal needs to be at lower over all cost... than is presently included in overhead costs today. If this is not the outcome... branded seed that avoids high overhead costs... will grow in use on commercial grain farms.
Hence the challenge. What are actual costs today...?? Projected costs in the future???

The risks of various options...?? Rewards??
Many questions to be answered... [that answers have not been established ] on how best future provision of quality planting seed... looking forward that is fair to every one at all levels. Cheers

At least you are honest, you want to make more money for yourself.

If the seed company's actually came up with an innovative and truly profitable product, farmers would buy it. You have all the legislation in place to ensure you receive return on your investment thru PBR, EULA's, UPOV - ever heard of HT canola? But wheat hasn't changed much in 30 years, so instead you just want to extort money from farmers so you can use their money to innovate instead of investing your own.

[TOM4CWB]

Maiiee,
If western Canadian grain farmers on cereals; paid 3.30 to $4.40 [per tonne I assume] end point royalty... there would be equal distribution of R&D costs on variety development.
Grain buyers ... say... they refuse to collect an end point royalty on cereal grains .
Hense.. the debate. About 70% of cereal seed planted pays zero royalty/levy in western Canada. No endpoint funding back to plant breeders... by variety. Now even WGRF funding stopped as well.[not deducted any longer]
fair distribution on variety R&D costs... needs to happen to remain competitive into the future.

errr can someone explain the situation again in 2 or 3 sentences?

yep we pay 3.30 to 4.40 end point royalty collected and distrubted by buyers here. No one blinks a eye lid.
after about 5 years if you still have your farmer retained seed of that variety is more than likely supersceded and no royalty paid.

and sorry tom as for grain consumer wants etc etc my comment is i think canada and australia are both premium wheat producers quality and specs buyers want BUT BUT they wont buy it they go to ruskies or ukraine were ever and buy cheap wheat and blend a little canadian or oz and babooshka they have what they want.

the world wants cheap food winge and moan thats the fact. So breed higher yielding types without quality specs is the go.

but its self defeating need some sort of market differentiation but not a single desk.

another pet peave been showing interest in agronomy since i was about 16 yeah back when i was a virgin woops sorry farma......i digress.........but every year new beaut variety of wheat out yields previous by 8% rinse repeat next year and so on and so on well i should be growing about a effing 100 bushels by now.

think i got off topic.......[ATTACH]3718[/ATTACH]

[malleefarmer]

A dumb comment from me but you guys are used to it, so cargills glencore ld adm ridley agriproducts cofco etc etc all the internationals collect the levy in australia but refuse to in canada whats the go??

Weve had epr since i think mid 90s.

• In South Australia,
Grain Industry Research and Development Fund: (opt out available)
 30 cents per tonne from the proceeds of the first sale of all grain.
Grain Industry Fund: (opt out available)

Despite the introduction of EPRs to supplement private breeding programs, growers of over 25 leviable crops are still required to pay an R&D levy. Presently, the R&D levy paid by growers is calculated as 1.02% of the farm gate value of the crop. Levies are collected through the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry – Levies Unit which can be found at http://www.agriculture.gov.au/ag-farm-food/levies/rates

A portion of this levy is allocated to the Grains Research and Development Corporation and is used for a number of important services to support the grains industry, including;

Crop Classification
R&D capacity building
Pre-breeding activities
New farm practices
New varieties (excluding mainstream wheat breeding)
Other GRDC activities, including the National Variety Trials (NVT) system

Plus epr as mentioned above

So epr say $4
GIRDF 30 cents per tonne but opt out avaiballe
Then GRDC @ 1.02% at $390 per tonne wheat another $3.98

So on $390 wheat sale today i pay $8.28 per tonne all collected and distributed by buyers and is on sale documentation.

Am i gleaning its gonna be way more in western canada?

[TOM4CWB]

Thx Mallee.
Good to know your numbers.
Estimates we were told... was about 2$/ac EPR needed for genetic varietal research on new varieties where farmers have replanted their saved seed... each year.
We also do have refundable cereal producer commissions... with End Point type deductions... varies by province and crop. Pulse crops in Saskatchewan is only non-refundable 'checkoff'.
Feds want to reduce public varietal breeding programs even further we are told... to where 'Cluster' R&D is principal Federal gov funding upstream of public plant breeding varietal programs... that are more basic 'generic' research. Grain Farmers are justified in concerns... that Feds want to download further cereal R&D costs away from taxpayer funding. Planting seed is 'easy' target for Feds to exploit... Grain buyers have strong effective lobby against End Point sales collections that are variety based for cereal crops. Canola being small seeding rate.. with 5lb/ac... and GMO traits... has extracted plenty of revenue with hybrid seed that needs yearly replacement for disease and agronomic upgrades being out front.
Very complex... hard to do with 2 or 3 sentences...THX!
Cheers!!

A dumb comment from me but you guys are used to it, so cargills glencore ld adm ridley agriproducts cofco etc etc all the internationals collect the levy in australia but refuse to in canada whats the go??

Weve had epr since i think mid 90s.

• In South Australia,
Grain Industry Research and Development Fund: (opt out available)
 30 cents per tonne from the proceeds of the first sale of all grain.
Grain Industry Fund: (opt out available)

Despite the introduction of EPRs to supplement private breeding programs, growers of over 25 leviable crops are still required to pay an R&D levy. Presently, the R&D levy paid by growers is calculated as 1.02% of the farm gate value of the crop. Levies are collected through the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry – Levies Unit which can be found at http://www.agriculture.gov.au/ag-farm-food/levies/rates

A portion of this levy is allocated to the Grains Research and Development Corporation and is used for a number of important services to support the grains industry, including;

Crop Classification
R&D capacity building
Pre-breeding activities
New farm practices
New varieties (excluding mainstream wheat breeding)
Other GRDC activities, including the National Variety Trials (NVT) system

Plus epr as mentioned above

So epr say $4
GIRDF 30 cents per tonne but opt out avaiballe
Then GRDC @ 1.02% at $390 per tonne wheat another $3.98

So on $390 wheat sale today i pay $8.28 per tonne all collected and distributed by buyers and is on sale documentation.

Am i gleaning its gonna be way more in western canada?

[bucket]

Tom


Pretending that you give a **** about the average farmer is already getting old....

Why don't you tell your masters its a bad idea.....


I would put you right in the same room as Bill Boyd on the likeable scale. ....

It's Monday you can go back to preying on your neighbors. ....

[Braveheart]

This idea of end point royalties is a seriously bad idea:

This begins a dangerous precedent that farmers somehow are responsible for funding someone else's innovation and research. What next? Hours on tractors or combines taxed? Fertilizer or pesticide levies to further research? When did seed think they became so special that they don't risk their own investment? Once that "risk" is taken away, an industry develops a lazy, entitled identity not driven by entrepreneurial spirit.

The administration of collecting royalties will create a new burdensome bureaucracy adding costs beyond the royalties farmers will pay.

As usual with most poorly considered ideas, the opposite of the intended effect will occur. In this case, as many farms are struggling financially, farmers will look for routes to bypass royalties. They'll use farm saved seed, or older varieties that EPR doesn't apply to. So, instead of this "keep Canada competitive" crap that is being spouted, the opposite will occur.

The timing of this couldn't be worse. Farmers are dealing with higher fertilizer prices, higher property taxes, carbon taxes, higher machinery costs, etc. Mergers of input suppliers are seeing higher prices throughout as those new large companies have raised prices to make sure farmers pay for the acquisitions. Ultimately killing your customer isn't good for future business.

This just a bad idea. It is regressive not progressive. If the seed industry's business model hasn't been correct up till now how have they survived, and seemingly prospered, and produced good varieties.

There is no guarantee that extra money may go to research it may just end up as extra cash in company bank accounts.

There are more seed players than SeCan by the way.

It's a bad idea Tom.

[Oliver88]

Very good points Braveheart.

This is no seed synergy it is simply another form of taxation to subsidize a group who relies on primary producers for their pay cheque.

[bucket]

Very good points Braveheart.

This is no seed synergy it is simply another form of taxation to subsidize a group who relies on primary producers for their pay cheque.

With no responsibility or liability for the messes they create...

AT a buck a tonne like they were talking about in Saskatoon...30 million on cereals alone....another 25 million for other grains ...

And checkoffs as well...

Benefitting who???????

[macdon02]

With no responsibility or liability for the messes they create...

AT a buck a tonne like they were talking about in Saskatoon...30 million on cereals alone....another 25 million for other grains ...

And checkoffs as well...

Benefitting who???????

A buck? I was told $4/mt was mentioned from neighbor that went. Of course I'm sure we'll get told it'll drop as the better varieties come on line....

[bucket]

IMHO

This whole process needs a restart with better starting point ideas other than taxing the primary producer....

[TOM4CWB]

Dear Bucket,
Hope your Christmas goes well in 2018... and 2019 brings many blessings and happiness.
Sincerely, Tom

Tom


Pretending that you give a **** about the average farmer is already getting old....

Why don't you tell your masters its a bad idea.....


I would put you right in the same room as Bill Boyd on the likeable scale. ....

It's Monday you can go back to preying on your neighbors. ....

[sumdumguy]

Greed - demon greed!

[Guest]

keyword in mallees post was $390 mt for wheat
the leaches will never give us that here , we can have a prairie wide drought here and all we will here about is the big crop 10000 miles away
don't people advocating for this realize there is no more to take ??.
wtf tom ???????