Selling to the US without the CWB

[ianben]

Almoy may have it here.
The milk came from the oversupply barrel.
We have a milk quota so supply should be fixed.
The MMB bought all the milk a producer sent and distributed round the buyers with a pooled price.Liquid has a premium over manufacturing but to guarentee supply some always went to manufacturing.
Like the CWB loopholes developed and the dual system was adopted.
Here cherrypicking or good marketing did happen. Some producers got 29p and some 25p so the ones on 25p sold for 27p to the other guys customer over and over all the way down to 14p.

This is my experience with a board system changed to dual. A few loopholes seem to make no difference but cause disatisfaction.
As soon as a dual system is started it works ok till a price differental exists.
Then look out! Everybody scrambles for the best price.
Think about how you will decide on who will hold a carryover in a good year.I believe the CWB do hold stocks and regulate supply in some way. Who will supply your customer when you cannot and then why should he return to you.

[TOM4CWB]

Ianben;

One of the CWB's biggest blunders in the past year, was to sell everything they could lay their hands on, at a historically low price...

Their market intelegence was wrong.

Now if I trust the CWB, as they are supposed to be the market superstars, I have been let down big time...

This would be OK if the government would be responsible, and cough up the difference... but you and I know this is not going to happen.

If the CWB were only controling wheat and barley that was "offered" to them, as the CWB Act specifies they only do control... then selling CWB stocks would have been sad, but not unfair.

But since the CWB uses Jail and Customs enforcment officers to visit our homes, obviously we are into the realm of dictators and thugs.

The market will go up, and down...

By the way Ianben, the folks getting 27 or 29 pence, could be on the other side, when the price of milk goes to 35 pence...

The market is always right, whether we like it or not... if there is a market that can respond to supply and demand to begin with.

Market transparency and arbitrage are part of your problems with your wheat market, as well, in the EU.

The CWB is using the EU lower price to justify lower prices in Canada... which goes directly what you have been speaking for in a marketer...

So Ianben... we import 4 MMT of Corn, at high prices... and the CWB feels entitled to dump lower quality feed grains on the international market lowering your price at the same time.

Where do I recieve any CWB protection from what is actually happening?

All the CWB does, is, use the single desk monopoly to, extract my grain at the lowest price it possibly can...

Now this could change... but governments and consumers who hold the democratic power... get the right to make me provide their food at the cheapest possible price...

So Ianben, I would say we are back at square one again, wouldn't you?

[ianben]

Tom
I hope not quite at square one.
I see some form of change must some happen at CWB. They are clearly failing to give customer satisfaction.
Just hope some of you see it may not be as simple as you think.

We may see 35p milk oneday but already some of the original voices for change have been forced from the industry along with many others.

Cowman said nobody wins in a drought and noboby has won with the removal of our MMB.

There must be a better way than we used.

Make sure you find it!!

[parsley]

ianben,

You complain, "Some producers got 29p and some 25p so the ones on 25p sold for 27p to the other guys customer over and over all the way down to 14p.", and that is the sore spot isn't it, that some guys rake in more than others? Some guys get more money. More money. You obviously want a piece of the $$$$action. You are concerned with wealth distribution. Is this because of equality? Or because you simply want money?

Let's extrapolate your equality philosophy to world economics and apply it.

15% of the world's population has an average per capita income of $21,000.00 annually
85% of the world 's average income is $1,000.00 annually

ianben, you belong to the 15%. Do you want your 15% to throw their total income into the 85% pot, so that the world income will rise and everyone will be equal? Would the lifestyle in the 85% group change very much? I presume you would be pleased to see your $21,000.00 annually drop to a little over $1000.00/year, because that satisfies the equality factor you moan about. Do you really want your equality philosophy applied this way? And the big question is this.. what happens if the wealth creators get fed up and quit? What happens if the 15% throw in the towel? What happens if wheat farmers throw in the towel? What happens if farmers across Canada throw in the towel? They produce $34.4 Billion in primary production in Canada. Should that be shared equally among the 230,230 farms across Canada? Or should it instead be shared equally with 30 Million Canadians? Or , according to your equality factor, if you think it right through, should it be shared with the entire world.?

Is equality what you really stand for?

Parsley

[Everest]

Almoy,

I'm glad you're back. I believe it is perfectly legitimate that you and a majority of farmers in your area want to market through the CWB. I would not want to take that right away from you.

Do you think it is a legitimate desire or right that other farmers be able to market outside the CWB? The issue is not the CWB. The issue is a compulsory CWB.

Should a group of farmers who desire to price pool through the CWB have the right to force other farmers into the scheme, even though their needs are better met by marketing direct?

Hope you can give me some insight into how you view this question. I have asked other CWB/pooling supporters this question, and I never seem to get an answer.

Cheers

[JD_GREEN]

ALMOY YOU STATE THAT PRODUCERS IN YOUR AREA ARE PERFECTLY HAPPY SELLING TO THE CWB AS THEY HAVE SUCH GREAT DIFFICULTY IN SELLING THEIR PULSE CROPS. WELL ALMOY I AM ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT MARKETS AND SELLS PULSE CROPS AND HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM MARKETING THEM. I AM ALSO A BUYER OF PULSE CROPS OWNING AND OPERATING A PROCESSING FACILITY. IF TRUTH IS KNOWN, THE REAL REASON THEY HAVE DIFFICULTY IN MARKETING THEIR PULSE CROPS IS THIS!! WHEN AN AGING POPULATION OF FARMERS HAVE BEEN TREATED LIKE MUSHROOMS IN REGARDS TO MARKETING THEIR PRODUCTS FOR DECADES, DID YOU ACTUALLY EXPECT ANY OF THEM TO BE MARKETING WIZARDS!! MOST FARMERS WOULD BE EXCELLENT MARKETERS IF THEY WERE LESS WORRIED ABOUT WHAT WAS SAID ON COFFEE ROW ABOUT MARKET CONDITIONS AND WHAT THEIR NEIGHBOR RECEIVED FOR HIS PULSE CROP. I HAVE SEEN MORE PROFITS LOST ON PULSE CROPS IN THE PAST THAN MAY VERY WELL EVER BE MADE WITH CEREAL CROPS THROUGH THE CWB. ALL A RESULT OF POOR MANAGEMENT NOT MARKET CONDITIONS.

[ianben]

Parsley
I thought my comment your CWB stinks was plain enough.
Just we made mistakes and did not see problems with a dual system.
I am just a farmer not a polititian so words and meanings may be a little confused.
I will try to explain again but this is not personnal.
You have your no cost licence and you market well beating the board price every time selling all you can produce.
Almoy sticks with the board and they still read the market badly he gets less than you and only sells 80% of his crop.
Acouple of years go by.
Almoy is getting desperate even he has had enough of the CWB.
He takes your customer and sells him all his wheat that bit cheaper than you.
Now you either sell no wheat or all your wheat for a little less than him.
You carry on till one of you go broke and the other is not far off
Just reporting what has happened with the MMB in the UK.

[ianben]

Thanks JD your post was not there when I replied.
The mushrooms dont die. They wake up.
You end up marketing with the mushrooms and they wreck the whole thing.
Lots of the mushrooms here suvived and the younger guys which the industry needs left. All about cash in the bank and the needs of a young family.

[charliep]

JD_Deere

The issues in the pulse industry revolve around the fact there are risk management tools to help the industry manage price risk in their business. The CWB manages their price risk by leaving it at the farm level until full payments are made.

The other issue is all the new entrants in the pulse processing business that are under financed (particularly given price risk they face). The grain side (and oilseeds for that matter) are mainly sold through the big grain companies with the exception of feed grains. They (to date) have been relatively financially secure (I didn't say profitable/a good investment).

As an interesting question, what would level of CWB/farm exposure be if one of the big grain companies goes broke over the coming winter?

[parsley]

Hi ianben,


Lord William Rees-Mogg wrote something interesting.....

"Markets always place the greatest pressures on the weakest holders. Indeed that is part of their virtues. They promote eficienecy by removing assets from weak hands."

Parsley

[ianben]

Hi Parsley

The law of the jungle!

Keep your claws sharp and dont get injured
Perhaps we are back to square one. Seems a pity.

Good luck out there

[TOM4CWB]

Thalpenny and the CWB...

I wrote;

"Rather call in customs agents, and send folks to jail, than respect and honour those who they were supposed to support and share burdens with!

Why is it so imposible to get the cash price that the CWB gets each day...

Unless the CWB knows this revelation will insure the CWB's death itself... "

Now if the Single desk monopoly is so great, and you know this to be true...


Give us cash prices... let us take these prices to the bank...

Or let those who would prefer to risk manage thru the pool... pool. You can contract pool sales, cherry picking is not a problem if pool sales are contracted in the same process as you do with PPO and the pooling system today.

We as farmers need to see the cash, where is it?

[parsley]

ianben,

Beneficiaries of organized compulsion find it difficult to accept the concept of "equality of opportunity" for everyone. The view is firmly based in co-operation as opposed to Equality's coercion. The view is firmly based in inclusiveness as opposed to Equality's exclusiveness.

One views the cup half full, one views the cup half empty.

One wants equality of opportunity for everyone, the other wants equality for a only a certain group.

Many describe "equality of opportunity", as a jungle where everyone needs claws, ianben. Certainly in Saskatchewan, Nettie Weibe, who was the leader of Canada's National farmers Union, publically urged the Government to jail all the farmers crossing the border without export licenses. She described them as greedy. Nettie Weibe wanted everyone to be equal, where nobody got more than anyone else. And she advocated imprisonment to enforce her point of view.


Wiebe got her wish, and 211 civil cases, and 216 criminal cases have either been completed or are still going through the court system. 427 families have been or are to be jailed and fined and coerced and intimidated because they want to market what they grow, and they want everyone else to have the equality of opportunity to do the same. These farmers do not advocate force, nor jail nor compulsion for anyone.

The beneficiaries of organized compulsion advocate equality and equality is enacted through 'civilized' force ... coercion and jail and favoritism and patronage and lies and coverups and fines

The jungle looks damn good to me

Parsley

[parsley]

tom4cwb - I think what you described looks like the producer direct sale process. Now you are starting to get it. The PDS process allows you to get a cash price from the US, but you have to put down your money in the form of the PDS to ensure you aren't undercutting the CWB's price. If you can beat the CWB's cash price in that market, you keep the differential. That is capturing the pecuniary benefit of having the single desk, so your neighbors who sell through the CWB don't have their market diminshed by your actions.

Some of the statements made here include that people don't want to get rid of the CWB, if their neighbors want it that's fine, etc. But by removing the single desk, you remove the financial advantages. Take a look at any grain company that offers a pooled price for special crops alongside cash prices. They always face the risk of unavailable supply for the pooled contracts if the price rallies.

So again, parsley and others couch their language in this never-never land of 'just give us no-cost export licenses' and everything will be the same for those who want the CWB.

It is fraudulent and misleading at best and downright conniving at worst. They know if they called this by it's true name - an open market - that it would not sell because farmers support the single desk and the benefits of price pooling. Farmers know that exactly what ianben describes is what will happen.

Tom

[JD_GREEN]

CHARLIEP

AGREE WITH YOU ONE HUNDRED PERCENT AND YES WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF ANYONE GOES BROKE OVER THE COMING WINTER AND ITS RESULTS