Oil industry putting economy, environment at risk, says former minister C. McKenna

[chuckChuck]

Hamloc you still cant figure this out can you?

The planet includes the oceans which are warming slowly. So yes many countries can be warming twice as fast as the planet as a whole.

What part of this don't you understand?

[chuckChuck]

Hamloc you posted two articles as evidence which said Canada and the EU both warming at twice the rate of the world or planet. However it is phrased it means the same thing.

Canada and the EU are mostly land masses and it is not incorrect to say they are both warming at twice the rate of the entire planet!

If you can't understand this then give up!

[fjlip]

Wow same temps as 1660!

[chuckChuck]

The first graph of temperatures in England came from the MET office National Meterological service. How can you tell anything from that graph of 380 years?

Here is what the MET says says about climate change which confirms climate change.

Highlights of the 2024 report

The latest assessment of the UK’s climate shows how baselines are shifting, records are becoming more frequent, and that temperature and rainfall extremes are becoming the norm. The report highlights how the UK’s climate has warmed steadily from the 1980s onwards, with the greatest implications from the increasing frequency and intensity of daily temperature extremes.

• The UK is warming: Since the 1980s the UK climate has been warming at a rate of approximately 0.25°C per decade. The last three years have all been in the UK’s top five warmest on record.
• Extremes are increasing: Over recent decades, temperature extremes have increased, becoming more frequent and more intense. For example, the hottest summer days have warmed around twice as much as average summer days in some UK areas when comparing the latest decade to 1961-1990.
• Sea level rise is accelerating: UK sea levels have risen 19.5cm since 1901 with the last three years the three highest on record for annual mean sea level.
• Winters are getting wetter: October 2023 to March 2024 was the wettest winter half-year on record. In a series from 1767, six of the ten wettest winter half-years (October to March) for England and Wales have been in the 21st Century so far.
• Longer leaf-on season: The 2024 leaf-on season was 7 days longer than the 1999-2023 baseline. This was largely due to an earlier Spring.
• Reduction in frost days: Air and ground frosts have reduced by around a quarter since the 1980s.

[chuckChuck]

The second graph comes from a paper authored by Emily J Judd.

A 485-million-year history of Earth’s surface temperature

Her conclusion from looking at earth's climate over 485 million years:

There is a strong relationship between global mean surface temperature. and CO₂, indicating that CO₂ is the dominant control on climate.

Thanks Flipper for posting science that contradicts your idea that increasing CO2 has nothing to do with climate change and a warming planet.

[chuckChuck]

The flat earth idea that flipper has that the climate has always changed over millions of years and there is nothing to worry about falls flat.


While Earth's climate has naturally changed before, Skeptical Science notes that current rapid warming is caused by human activity (mainly emissions), not natural cycles. Past changes occurred over thousands of years, whereas modern changes are happening in decades, making them unprecedented and highly concerning.

Key Points on the "Climate Has Always Changed" Argument:

• Cause vs. Speed: Natural climate changes (like ice ages) occurred over very slow, long-term cycles. Today's, human-caused climate change is occurring in just centuries or less.
• The Difference is Humanity: While the climate did change in the distant past, it hasn't changed this quickly since human civilization developed.
• Evidence of Human Activity: Scientists know the current warming is caused by humans because it is accompanied by rising levels and rapid atmospheric changes that cannot be explained by natural factors like solar activity.
• A "Non Sequitur" Fallacy: Using past climate change to dismiss current, human-driven warming is a logical fallacy, similar to arguing a person died of natural causes when they were killed by a knife. Past climate changes actually show that climate is highly sensitive to energy changes (like adding CO2, which underscores the danger of current, rapid, human-induced greenhouse gas emissions.

[chuckChuck]

So look at this graph of the last 800,000 years. CO2 has risen dramatically in a relatively very short period. In that 800,000 years there was numerous ice ages that retreated as CO2 levels rose over very long periods of time.

By 1911 CO2 had already matched the highest level in 800,000 years of about 300 ppm and now in 2026 levels are 431 ppm after only 115 years!

At 200 ppm were were in ice ages with ice covering much of northern north America and Europe and at 280 ppm we were in relatively warm interglacial periods where the ice retreated to the arctic. That dramatic change in climate is the result of 100ppm more CO2.

(Nearly all of Canada and the northern U.S. were under the 2-mile-thick Laurentide Ice Sheet , while Scandinavia, Britain, and northern Europe were buried by the Eurasian Ice Sheet)

At present we are at 434 ppm CO2 levels 130 ppm higher that the previous CO2 maximums in 800,000 years.

Because oceans have absorbed 90% the global warming to date (water takes a longer time to warm up than land masses) we have not seen planetary temperatures rise as dramatically. The oceans slow down the rise but will also slow down the decline.

But without reducing CO2 emissions and levels we are on track to lock in very dramatic temperature rises like a an El Nino event on steroids. Even a relatively small ocean warming event has profound impacts.

The risk is that ocean warming caused by climate change will be more or less a permanent a much more severe very long lasting planetary El Nino type ocaen warming event that will in turn lead to positive feed back loops that will further alter earths climate and result in mass extinction events and the inability for large numbers of humans to survive.

[Hamloc]

The government of Canada released a report in 2019 that said Canada was warming twice as fast as “the rest of the world”(place whatever significance on that you wish). The same week this report was released then Environment Minister Catherine McKenna introduced(imposed) the federal consumer carbon tax. Coincidence?(I doubt it). This carbon tax was promoted as being essential but revenue neutral. Mark Carney gets elected, removes the consumer carbon tax and of late has been talking about all the money he is saving Canadian consumers because of the carbon tax removal. And politicians wonder why we don’t trust them.

Since 2015 Federal, Provincial and Territorial governments have spent $503 billion on climate change related programs. In that same time period passenger vehicle manufacturing output has been reduced by 48%, daily oil production has increased by roughly 33%. And there is no Canadian made EV being built in Canada today. There is also no solar panel manufacturing in Canada or any Windmills being built in Canada.

Record low temperature for April 26 in Red Deer Alberta -12.8* Celsius. Forecast low for tonight, -13.
I was talking to a friend from Northern Alberta about a week ago. Over 6 feet of snow this winter, on top of that snow in the last week varies from 3-4 inches to almost 2 feet depending on where you live.

[chuckChuck]

Huh? What does weather in April have to do with long term climate? Nothing! Climate is measured over decades Hamloc!

But you fail to address any of the climate science I post!

And Hamloc you cant even understand planetary averages vs land mass averages and why they can rise twice as fast on land.

[Hamloc]

Huh? What does weather in April have to do with long term climate? Nothing! Climate is measured over decades Hamloc!

But you fail to address any of the climate science I post!

And Hamloc you cant even understand planetary averages vs land mass averages and why they can rise twice as fast on land.

This bothers you does it? Huh. I find you rarely respond to any of mine. I asked you 2 questions on post 37 of this thread that you totally ignored. You have been repeatedly beating the same drum on Agriville for as long as I have been on Agriville, unfortunately for you you haven’t changed anyones mind.

As I said the quote in the article was “the rest of the world”. Your interpretation of that is that it is comparing land mass temperature to ocean temperature.