Alberta government announces new rules aimed at lowering utility bills

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Socialist math

Isn't that an oxymoron?

[chuckChuck]

The electricity is going to come from many sources and storage will be part of the supply.

Alberta gets almost 20% of its electricity supply from renewables and is also installing some storage for grid stabilization.

It was Alberta gas plants that failed unexpectedly in the winter cold snap that caused a shortage. The AESO knew that renewables were not going to produce as much during the cold snap because that is predictable. And the system is designed for that predictable situation. New gas plants will come on line this year. Along with a lot more renewables.

[WiltonRanch]

“Of 4-hour battery storage.” What is fascinating here, is first let’s pretend solar could provide 12 hours of dependable electricity(certainly not at full capacity), now you add 4 hours of battery storage. Wow now we are up to 16 hours. Where does the power come from for the remaining 8 hours?! Out of the $589 billion how much goes to China?!

Socialist math

[Hamloc]

What are you going on about there A5?

You seem to be losing your way.

“For every dollar invested in fossil fuels, about 1.7 dollars are now going into clean energy" . Five years ago, this ratio was one-to-one. IEA

You keep ignoring the LCOE analysis on new capacity.

[url]https://energyinnovation.org/publication/coal-cost-crossover-3-0-local-renewables-plus-storage-create-new-opportunities-for-customer-savings-and-community-reinvestment/[/url]

"This report finds 99 percent of the existing U.S. coal fleet is more expensive to run compared to replacement by new solar or wind. Replacing coal plants with local wind and solar would also save enough to finance nearly 150 gigawatts of four-hour battery storage, over 60 percent of the coal fleet’s capacity, and generate $589 billion in new investment across the U.S. Our report provides policy recommendations to facilitate a just transition through the Coal Cost Crossover."

“Of 4-hour battery storage.” What is fascinating here, is first let’s pretend solar could provide 12 hours of dependable electricity(certainly not at full capacity), now you add 4 hours of battery storage. Wow now we are up to 16 hours. Where does the power come from for the remaining 8 hours?! Out of the $589 billion how much goes to China?!

[chuckChuck]

What are you going on about there A5?

You seem to be losing your way.

“For every dollar invested in fossil fuels, about 1.7 dollars are now going into clean energy" . Five years ago, this ratio was one-to-one. IEA

You keep ignoring the LCOE analysis on new capacity.

[url]https://energyinnovation.org/publication/coal-cost-crossover-3-0-local-renewables-plus-storage-create-new-opportunities-for-customer-savings-and-community-reinvestment/[/url]

"This report finds 99 percent of the existing U.S. coal fleet is more expensive to run compared to replacement by new solar or wind. Replacing coal plants with local wind and solar would also save enough to finance nearly 150 gigawatts of four-hour battery storage, over 60 percent of the coal fleet’s capacity, and generate $589 billion in new investment across the U.S. Our report provides policy recommendations to facilitate a just transition through the Coal Cost Crossover."

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Another way to look at this is to pretend you know of a hypothetical poster on a hypothetical agricultural forum who has difficulty getting along with other posters.
If this poster was only having difficulties getting along with one or two equally difficult posters, but plays well with everyone else, one might conclude that the other posters are the problem.

But if virtually everyone on the hypothetical forum, left, right, centrist or indifferent, has the same problem communicating with this hypothetical poster, perhaps rational conclusion is that the poster himself may be the problem, not every other member of the forum.
With apologies to agstar and forage, in case they mistakenly conclude that this hypothetical example bears any semblance to any real world forum, and feel left out.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Thats not the same as LCOE and new capacity. There are many factors why prices are rising and generation is only one part of electricity pricing

And you have never proved that renewables are the only cause of high pries in Alberta. The main cause is deregulation and with holding supply. Overcharging in other words.

Do I understand your argument correctly that you are justifying the fact that you are unable to find even a single real world example of cheaper electricity from wind and solar, because there are "many factors"?
So every jurisdiction in the world who installs wind and solar results in higher prices, contrary to Lazard's conclusions, and you conclude that the common factor is "many factors", not the single common factor?

[furrowtickler]

Conclusions are much different than what you have been proclaiming , but not surprising to most .

[furrowtickler]

Here’s a report for you chuck
look it up , 131 pages

[chuckChuck]

Thats not the same as LCOE and new capacity. There are many factors why prices are rising and generation is only one part of electricity pricing

And you have never proved that renewables are the only cause of high pries in Alberta. The main cause is deregulation and with holding supply. Overcharging in other words.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

If Lazard is wrong show us the evidence from any other LCOE analysis.

Prove Lazard wrong

I bet all we are going to get is more flimsy excuses.

As usual the usual suspects don't agree with any independent analysis that doesn't support their opinions.

This can be settled even easier.
If Lazard is right, you will be able to provide even a single example of wind and or solar resulting in cheaper electricity to the consumer.

[chuckChuck]

If Lazard is wrong show us the evidence from any other LCOE analysis.

Prove Lazard wrong

I bet all we are going to get is more flimsy excuses.

As usual the usual suspects don't agree with any independent analysis that doesn't support their opinions.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Lazards is not a credible scientific organization.
Actually they are an investment bank.
They sell investments in renewables and healthcare mostly.
Their levelized cost was never expected to be a general reference.
It is based on enthusiastic pumpenomics for products they sell.
No attempt has been made to check accuracy as demonstrated by recent canceling of offshore wind projects that were off the charts on cost.

Must say I am a bit surprised to see you pumping for a large investment bank.
They might be a big corp that restricts supply to increase prices?

Actually, many attempts have been made to check the accuracy of their sales pitch/ fabrications. But the people doing the checking are actual economists and engineers who have not been part of the cabal that chuck includes in his credible scientific organizations, therefore they don't count.

[shtferbrains]

Lazards is not a credible scientific organization.
Actually they are an investment bank.
They sell investments in renewables and healthcare mostly.
Their levelized cost was never expected to be a general reference.
It is based on enthusiastic pumpenomics for products they sell.
No attempt has been made to check accuracy as demonstrated by recent canceling of offshore wind projects that were off the charts on cost.

Must say I am a bit surprised to see you pumping for a large investment bank.
They might be a big corp that restricts supply to increase prices?

[chuckChuck]

Do you need me to post Lazards Levelized Cost of Electricity (LCOE) that clearly shows wind and solar among the lowest cost sources of new generation? And it doesn't matter if they are intermittent when measuring the LCOE.

If you want to add increased generation capacity to lower prices and emissions, utility scale wind and solar PV work well. Otherwise the deregulated free market supply of renewables wouldn't have boomed in Alberta. Alberta has some of the best wind and solar resources in Canada.

Look it up for yourself.

file:///C:/Users/House/Dropbox/My%20PC%20(DESKTOP-VQF995V)/Downloads/lazards-lcoeplus-april-2023-6.pdf