Cost of Power

[sumdumguy]

Wonder if anyone has chart comparing the price of electricity?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Comparing it to what? Bananas?

[sumdumguy]

Saskatchewan to Alberta

[TSIPP]

Seems legit.

[ajl]

The energy portion of our bill is dropping from 11.2 cent/kwh to 10.2 in January in our REA. This price includes the Alberta carbon tax: aka the large emitters fund. We pay high distribution and transmission charges mainly because of the cost of connecting all the new green scams to the grid and the many new grid connections due to people fleeing communism in the other provinces in canuckistan. I don't know if the costs presented here include carbon tax in the other provinces or not. Gotta like how quebec cheats all the time. They lower their power costs by screwing over the Newfies and then the Newfs get more equalization from Alberta because *****bec stole their power.

[chuckChuck]

It looks like some of you guys need a refresher:

WHY ARE POWER PRICES SO DARN HIGH? in Alberta

Oct 28, 2023, 08:16


[url]https://www.policyschool.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/EEP_Power_Prices_april.pdf[/url]

APRIL 2022
The School of Public Policy
University of Calgary Downtown Campus
906 8th Avenue S.W., 5th Floor
Calgary, Alberta T2P 1H9

WHY ARE POWER PRICES SO DARN HIGH?

Blake Shaffer, David Brown & Andrew Eckert

I
All told, these changes to the cost to generate power account for $22 of the $57/MWh price
increase. So what's behind the other $35?

The answer lies in how Alberta's power market
differs from much of the rest of Canada. In other provinces, regulated utilities pass on all
their costs to consumers through regulated rates. Whereas in Alberta, generators compete
in an open market, with no guarantee the revenue they earn will be sufficient to recoup their
fixed costs of investing in power plants. To do so, they need to earn revenues over and above
their marginal costs of generating power.

In 2020, the difference between the realized market price and what we get from our model with all firms offering at their marginal cost what we call the market markup was only $9/MWh. In 2021, this markup nearly quintupled: to $44/MW a change of $35/MWh.

Why the sudden jump? The end of Alberta's 20 year PPAs (Power Purchase Arrangements)
left control of more power plants in the hands of fewer power companies. This increase in
market concentration, coupled with a generally tighter market overall, means firms can more
easily exercise market power and profitably raise their offer prices.

So, what does this mean for Alberta's power market? On this, views will differ. Some will
respond with calls to re-regulate. Others will note that occasional periods of high prices are
needed for generators to recoup their fixed costs. After a period of low prices for the past 6
years, firms may be seizing the opportunity to earn a return on their investments. Over time,
it is expected that market power will get disciplined by new entry. And we’re seeing this, with
thousands of megawatts currently in the development queue, but it will take time. In our
view, the end of the PPAs and the resulting pop in prices raises important questions about
the degree of market concentration and the potential benefits of forward contracting.
In the meantime, consumers wishing to be removed from the cut and thrust of wholesale
power markets would do well considering a fixed rate for their power. Even with the runup in prices, fixed rates look attractive relative to floating rates for at least the next year.

[Hamloc]

It looks like some of you guys need a refresher:

WHY ARE POWER PRICES SO DARN HIGH? in Alberta

Oct 28, 2023, 08:16


[url]https://www.policyschool.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/EEP_Power_Prices_april.pdf[/url]

APRIL 2022
The School of Public Policy
University of Calgary Downtown Campus
906 8th Avenue S.W., 5th Floor
Calgary, Alberta T2P 1H9

WHY ARE POWER PRICES SO DARN HIGH?

Blake Shaffer, David Brown & Andrew Eckert

I
All told, these changes to the cost to generate power account for $22 of the $57/MWh price
increase. So what's behind the other $35?

The answer lies in how Alberta's power market
differs from much of the rest of Canada. In other provinces, regulated utilities pass on all
their costs to consumers through regulated rates. Whereas in Alberta, generators compete
in an open market, with no guarantee the revenue they earn will be sufficient to recoup their
fixed costs of investing in power plants. To do so, they need to earn revenues over and above
their marginal costs of generating power.

In 2020, the difference between the realized market price and what we get from our model with all firms offering at their marginal cost what we call the market markup was only $9/MWh. In 2021, this markup nearly quintupled: to $44/MW a change of $35/MWh.

Why the sudden jump? The end of Alberta's 20 year PPAs (Power Purchase Arrangements)
left control of more power plants in the hands of fewer power companies. This increase in
market concentration, coupled with a generally tighter market overall, means firms can more
easily exercise market power and profitably raise their offer prices.

So, what does this mean for Alberta's power market? On this, views will differ. Some will
respond with calls to re-regulate. Others will note that occasional periods of high prices are
needed for generators to recoup their fixed costs. After a period of low prices for the past 6
years, firms may be seizing the opportunity to earn a return on their investments. Over time,
it is expected that market power will get disciplined by new entry. And we’re seeing this, with
thousands of megawatts currently in the development queue, but it will take time. In our
view, the end of the PPAs and the resulting pop in prices raises important questions about
the degree of market concentration and the potential benefits of forward contracting.
In the meantime, consumers wishing to be removed from the cut and thrust of wholesale
power markets would do well considering a fixed rate for their power. Even with the runup in prices, fixed rates look attractive relative to floating rates for at least the next year.

You keep pasting the same information over and over. I will do the same. My 2 most recent power bills, 2 different sites. My farm 17.27 cents a kwh of which 6.89 cents per kwh is generation locked in for 5 years Dec. 2022. So over 10 cents a kwh for transmission, distribution and administration. Second sight was 27.29 cents a kwh of which 12.69 cents per kwh is generation locked in for 5 years August of 2023. So 14.6 cents for transmission, distribution and administration. A couple of notes, transmission and distribution is tough to figure out. How much is charged is based on the size of the transformer you have on your meter pole in the yard and it is moderated somewhat by consumption. So it is a moving fixed charge which goes up slower than your rate of consumption. As an example at my second sight the consumption was lower the previous month but the cost per kwh for transmission, distribution and administration was just over 18 cents a kwh. As for locking in your rate for 5 years you can end the contract at any time with no penalty if a better deal comes along.

As for the increased price from December 2022 to August 2023 certainly not related to natural gas prices as they were about $2.50 a gigajoule in August 2023 as opposed to over $5 a gigajoule in December 2022. I suspect a lot of pricing has to do with increased demand and less competition. Affordable generation from coal has been eliminated by NDP legislation and the continual ramp up of the carbon tax.

By far the largest portion of my bill is transmission and distribution. This goes to the owners of the power lines. This has nothing to do with what Chuck2 constantly rails on. There is no doubt that some bad public policy was enacted here by Ralph Klein. When electricity was privatized in Alberta I believe the power line companies were legislated a certain return on infrastructure which we certainly pay for on every bill. I will certainly agree with Chuck2 that electricity is too expensive in Alberta but what Trudeau and Guilbeault are attempting to legislate with their clean electricity regulations and their escalating carbon tax won’t make electricity in Alberta any more affordable!!!

[chuckChuck]

All you really need to know is Alberta pays more for electricity than in Saskatchewan because of deregulation and the utilities are charging more to increase their profits.

[shtferbrains]

Who is building all those solar and wind stations you always promote Chuck?
Aren't those all for profit private investments?
I've never figured out how they manage to be attractive investments when they contribute so little.
What kind of profit margin do you need when only operating less than 10% of the time?

How does that work?

[TOM4CWB]

With out a reliable distribution grid… the Whole electrical system fails.
We are is for a huge disaster…. As the electrical distribution grid isn’t available to meet the demand EV and alternative energy sources exponentially increase the energy stress on non fossil fuels exponentially increasing load factors… especially in cold Canadian weather.

Heat pump battery powered electrical backups are a catastrophic hazard threatening our human civilization…

No rational planning is being employed.

Insanity.

Cheers

[AlbertaFarmer5]

With out a reliable distribution grid… the Whole electrical system fails.
We are is for a huge disaster…. As the electrical distribution grid isn’t available to meet the demand EV and alternative energy sources exponentially increase the energy stress on non fossil fuels exponentially increasing load factors… especially in cold Canadian weather.

Heat pump battery powered electrical backups are a catastrophic hazard threatening our human civilization…

No rational planning is being employed.

Insanity.

Cheers

Yes, but is that a bug or a feature?
10 or 20 years ago, I could have believed it was a bug.
But given everything we now know. And after seeing the same results over and over in all parts of the world, it seems increasingly likely that this is an intentional feature of the green economy.
And that no amount of time, taxpayer money, subsidies, wishful thinking, trolling an agricultural forum, or promises of impossible future technologies which defy the laws of physics to solve insurmountable problems, will change that reality.

[TOM4CWB]

The C02 pollution distraction is not rational, common sense or scientific.

Earths global temperatures are independent of C02 … decarbonization does nothing to stop the corrupt sliding of civilization…

being frugal, efficient, kind, humble, forgiving… loving… will bring Peace and Glad Tidings…

The industrial military complex…. Aggressive War wars and the threat of humanity with 10’s of thousands of bombs… is the existential threat… not fossil fuels or C02 atmospheric content.

Blessings, Happy Christmas… we have so much to be thankful for…. Fear and deception are a horrible heritage to teach our children…

Let us Love and bring glad tidings this Christmas!

God Bless us one and all.. material possession don’t bring Peace and Good will to humanity….

[foragefarmer]

So who's Coco, the third boy, pony, or cat?

[TOM4CWB]

Pony!
Merry Christmas!
Blessings