• You will need to login or register before you can post a message. If you already have an Agriville account login by clicking the login icon on the top right corner of the page. If you are a new user you will need to Register.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

genie is out of the bottle

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    genie is out of the bottle

    Citizens Centre for Freedom and Democracy

    WEEKLY COMMENTARY
    "Just Between Us"

    March 27, 2006

    Conservative leadership candidate Mark Norris
    has let the Alberta separatism genie out of its bottle

    Mark Norris, campaigning to lead Alberta's Conservative government, told the Calgary Sun two weeks ago that if Ottawa tries another raid on Alberta like the NEP -- or Kyoto -- Albertans should separate.

    No Alberta politician, except a few fringe party separatists, has ever said this before. Not even Norris's hard-line competitor Ted Morton.

    So where were the banner headlines, the furious national denunciations? This man stands a fair chance of being Alberta's next premier.

    In fact what Norris just stated publicly to the Sun has been mainstream thinking in Alberta for years, and everyone knows it.

    The way it's usually said, especially after every federal election is, "We should do like Quebec and threaten separation."

    Norris is well aware that most Albertans don't want to separate. But he also knows most don't want to rule it out, and that over 40% are leaning that way, even if not all of them are committed to it.

    Politicians, of course, know that once a large and powerful idea like independence starts being discussed, it can turn their whole world upside down.

    Hence their practice of shouting separatism down as unthinkable -- even though almost everyone is thinking about it.

    But there's another reason mainstream politicians have avoided "doing like Quebec."

    Quebec separatists know what they want. Half of them actually want to separate, and the rest want more money from "the English" (meaning those oilfields out west).

    That's what they want. But what do Albertans want?

    Most don't know.

    Tiresome local liberals like Catherine Ford often say Albertans just like to bitch. But except for national government and the justice system, Albertans are famously unsympathetic to complainers. Need help? Get a job. Don't like your job? Find a better one. Got a problem? Fix it. Feeling marginalized? Suck it up. Don't complain. Deal with it yourself.

    But most Albertans know there's something about Canada that just plain doesn't add up -- starting with the $11,000 per family each year Ottawa siphons out of their economy.

    Twenty years ago, Preston Manning started a political party to fix the federal system. Unfortunately, it didn't work.

    We all learned that the problem with Canada goes deeper than politics. It's structural. It's constitutional.

    In September, the Citizens Centre will host a big public assembly called the Calgary Congress at the Westin Hotel, to determine how Canada should work, and how it can be fixed.

    What exactly needs to be changed for all regions to reach their full potential?

    Most sensible people realize that the federal government needs to be shrunk, and that the government of Alberta could play a key role in shrinking it.

    The Congress will identify principles whereby Alberta, Ontario and Quebec could join forces to reduce federal powers, each for its own good reasons.

    Experienced Alberta political leaders and thinkers will present new ideas to this Congress -- including Preston Manning, Ralph Klein, Ted Morton, Lorne Taylor, Bert Brown, and a lot of smart policy people from across Canada.

    We're also working on getting hundreds of grassroots Canadians to come too.

    If this approach works, good. If it doesn't, the separation that Norris has now enabled Albertans to discuss may follow.

    To find out more about this assembly, go to www.CalgaryCongress.ca, or call our office at 866-666-6768.

    - Link Byfield

    Link Byfield is chairman of the Edmonton-based Citizens Centre for Freedom and Democracy, and an Alberta senator-elect.

    "Just Between Us" is a feature service of the Citizens Centre for Freedom and Democracy. The purpose of the Citizens Centre is to enhance freedom and democracy by enabling ordinary citizens to become active and effective on important issues outside the normal processes of party politics.

    #2
    Well it is refreshing for a candidate to state the obvious? The dirty little secret we all know? Ralph Klein always danced around it but in the end he always said "I'm a Canadian first"!
    I make no bones about it. I am an Albertan...not a Canadian! Never have been, never will be.
    However most Albertans don't see it that way...yet...so it is good to see a desire by Quebec, Ontario, and the west for a decentralization of the federal government and their control over the provinces? Who needs the federal government?
    How about the concept of a "federation" of ten provinces that rule themselves and chip in for things that affect all of them? Do we really need a bunch of fat cats in Ottawa telling us how to run our health care, education, social programs, labor, pension plans, laws and law enforcement?
    The fact is this so-called country was created for one reason: To supply the heartland with cheap raw materials and a captive market? And nothing has changed since confederation? It just ain't working.

    Comment


      #3
      Mark Norris is running dead last in the 'leadership polls' so this may be his one hill to die on to get support.
      I had a call from a former MP yesterday all excited about Mark's separation comments. He is going to have a meeting with Mark and offer to help his campaign, so there are those out there that think this may be the answer.

      Comment


        #4
        Well I don't really care who gets in but at least Norris came out and said it! Maybe he figured he had nothing to lose?
        I think Dinning is a shoe in. The party brass wants him and he has mega bucks to spend.
        It will be interesting to see where Olberg is going? I hope he gets right in there and slings the mud...especially if he looks like he isn't going to win! I hope he pulls out all those skeletons he talked about!
        Despite the fact I am branded a Tory on here the only time I ever voted PC in Alberta was after Ralphs first term, because I thought he was going the right way by cutting everything and getting the bills paid...sort of how we should all live personally! I voted Alliance last time and will again unless they get a seperatist party up and running!
        I will admit I like Ralph Klein. Despite the fact he screws up quite a bit, I think he is about the best premier we've had since Manning...and you have to admit he sure is entertaining? I don't think they should ship old Ralph off just yet...let him go when he wants to? Just my opinion.

        Comment


          #5
          I dnon't think Dinning is a shoo in cowman. He is running first in the 'polls', but lots could happen. Oberg will ride the wave for a few weeks but it will fizzle out and the real race will either be between Morton and Dinning or Stelmach and Dinning, and right now Stelmach isn't putting any effort into running.
          I know Ed well, but I can't believe the guy. He resigned from cabinet to run, but he is the only candidate that doesn't have a 'meet and greet' function at the convention this weekend.

          Dinning is putting on the ritz which might offend the rank and file grassroots Torys. Having a hospitality suite complete with a 'scotch bar' is getting a bit lavish in my view, and tells me that Dinning is appealing to the well heeled.

          I still think that Morton will be the king maker but who knows, and I do think that Klein should announce this weekend that he will step a year from now and get the ball rolling for a leadership convenvtion.

          I am not sure that the party brass wants Dinning either, that is not what I am hearing from the moccasin telegraph. He is the one that assured caucus that ' deregulation will not fail', and a lot of MLA's have been really beaten up about deregulation !!

          Comment


            #6
            Well emerald I hope you don't think I was endorsing Dinning? I do think he is a little too "high class" in my opinion? Sort of out of touch with Martha and Henry if you will?
            I do like Morton. I like his politics and what comes across as common sense? I met him once as the boy had him as a prof at the U of C and introduced me. This was before he had any political ambitions.
            I really doubt I would vote PC in the next provincial election. I think they are totally out of control on spending...once again! Somewhere along the line Ralph lost sight of the big picture and forgot what got him there? I do realize it isn't all about Ralph, he doesn't decide these things but is just the figurehead? I would like to see the government run more like a business than a bunch of sailors on shore leave!

            Comment


              #7
              cowman, you are echoing the sentiments of many people across the province, and lots of them are in the PC party. MLA's got a memo that they are EXPECTED to walk onto the stage tonight en masse to show support for Ralph when he ends his speech. The memo got leaked to the media and one MLA, Ray Danyluk, was very vocal about it. He said he didn't need a memo to tell him what to do and how to go about it, so there again, it shows a party that isn't in control anymore and when that happens it points to the lack of leadership regardless of who is in that role.

              I doubt if the party will be nearly as strong after the convention, and likely weaker after the leadership is over because in my opinion the party will be badly divided by that time.

              Comment


                #8
                Where on earth are these facts coming from that separation is main stream thinking in Alberta? Do 40% actually think about separating? Do 40% (or more) even care what happens in politics? Could 40% of Albertans tell you who may be running for the leadership? Only cabinet ministers have to declare their intentions and resign by June 1st. There could be contenders that haven't yet stated their intentions or made up their minds. It is pretty much all speculation and conjecture at the moment.

                The Separation Party of Alberta - all 12 of them - admit that their numbers are not increasing, so I would like to know how statements like those in the article can be made, particularly with nothing to substantiate them.

                Polls are good as indicators and nothing more because people may say one thing and do the complete opposite. How questions are worded and/or asked have a big effect on how people will respond to things.

                The most interesting figure for Albertans this weekend will be the percentage of delegates that support Mr. Klein. Will the number be as high as in previous leadership reviews or will there be a significant drop? Stay tuned.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Well Linda, you're just not hanging out with the right crowd! Try the old rednecks in the oil patch or the crusty old boys down at the auction mart, or maybe the drunks at the legion! LOL
                  Now without a doubt the hardcore crowd is pretty small...and a lot of time they come across as fascists or something? Not owning up to that title or anything? LOL
                  But one shouldn't be too complacent. There are some very heavy hitters in the oil and gas business who are pretty committed, while not being very vocal about it? I think most are waiting for a "messiah" to lead them out of the wilderness? I wonder how Albertans would react if someone like Ralph Klein, or maybe a Peter Lougheed stood up and said "hey we need to go! I'll take us out"?
                  Of course it would be a hard sell for many seniors? They have this dream that Canada is a great country or something? And you could pretty well scrap all the lefties and commies? And the "nationalists" who think waving a funny flag and sipping capachino is the "in" thing?
                  So I guess that just leaves all us old(and young) rednecks, who believe this could be the best country in the world!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I think after the vote last night at the PC convention, Ralph would have a tough time leading anyone anywhere. I have a feeling we are into a leadership convention this fall, as it should have been in the first place.

                    If the majority of Albertans favor separation, then Mark Norris will get the nod but I highly doubt it.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Talk is cheap cowman and it takes a lot to walk the talk. If on the very off chance anything remotely like separation occured, would the oil fellas be albe to hang on to the amount of royalty money that they do now? Would they have to give more of it up in order to finance their own empire? I doubt they would want to give up any more of the pie than they already have.

                      It will be interesting to see just how long we have to wait for a leadership race. There is no doubt that the results of last night's vote must have been very shocking for all involved. What do you suppose caused the tide to turn?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        My guess is that the Oberg ousting was the final straw. Not because Oberg has a lot of popularity but because he got booted for saying what many people have been thinking and saying for some time. Mind you his 'skeletons' remark is likely what really tipped the scale.
                        I would imagine that there will be a hot time in the old town when caucus meets on Monday. Those that were not in favor of booting Oberg will likley have their say.

                        He has a huge group of supporters at the convention, from all across the province. Many of them decided to attend at the last minute because they were fed up with the bullying that the government has been doing for some time.

                        The 'old guard' is likely going to be retiring when the next election happens, so there will be many MLA's looking for cabinet posts, plus there will no doubt be those that have never been given a shot at cabinet lining up for the pay off for being loyal.

                        Saw Tom Livingston on TV saying that no-one should overstay their welcome, and he has been a long time Klein supporter so when those folks realize the time has come then hopefully the Premier does as well.

                        I would honestly doubt if he will spend much time in the Leg., and may possibly be gone before the fall sitting.

                        I see Preston Manning is considering entering the race, at the rate the candidates are coming out of the bushes the ballot will be half a mile long.

                        One thing I know for sure I WILL be at the Leadership convention, wouldn't miss it for the world. There will be so much jockeying around it would make Johnny Longden pale by comparison.

                        Oh, for those who don't know who that is, ask Cowman !!! He's old enough to remember !!!!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Well emerald I'm sorry but that name doesn't ring a bell?
                          It would seem the media has condemned Ralph to oblivion...but the fact is he got a majority vote? Last time I looked that meant he was still the premier?
                          Sure like the idea of Preston Manning being the premier...but then I come from a family who thought the sun rose and set on his old man! I actually met Mr. Manning(We never called him Earnest Manning...always Mr. Manning) when I was a small boy! It has been my observation in life that the acorn usually doesn't fall too far from the tree? If Preston was half as good as the old man he would be really something!
                          Funny story I've probably told before: My old aunt was a "political animal" who would never miss an election. I picked her up a couple of elections ago to take her to vote. On the way I said "So who are you going to vote for?" She said Oh I guess I'll have to vote for Ralph Klein. Then she sighed and continued "It is a sad day in Alberta when the very best we have is nothing more than a common drunk! Why the man wouldn't have been fit to sweep out Mr. Mannings office in the old days!"
                          Sure cracked me up! She was this little old bit of a thing, very distinguished looking and very sure how the world should work!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Johnny Longdon was a famous jockey cowman !!!!! Obvious that one of your vices wasn't betting on horses back in the old days !!!

                            I don't agree with you on Preston Manning, and I am willing to bet that he couldn't win the leadership if he does make an attempt.

                            The events of the past couple of weeks has levelled the field between Oberg and Dinning which is a real surprise.

                            I suspect that there may be at least one other cabinet minister throw their hat into the ring before too long.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Well I think you are right emerald on the getting elected thing? I think the PC party is loaded up with a lot of crooks and people too lazy to actually get a job! I doubt they would want a leader who was fiscally and morally responsible? Just the way of the world these days?
                              My own MLA is a typical example. In my opinion nothing more than a bum, who played his wifes cancer to the max to gain sympathy! Was sure running around visiting every Tom, Dick and Harry to get nominated for the PC party...but has pretty well totally disappeared since! Around here the "election" is getting the nod to be the candidate...not the provincial election...you could nominate a fence post PC and it would win!
                              SAD! And by the way he is a cabinet minister...though of what..it is hard to tell? Minister of Government efficiency or some garbage like that!

                              Comment

                              • Reply to this Thread
                              • Return to Topic List
                              Working...