Ag minister?

[cowman]

Well obviously this is one subject that is never going to be solved to everyones satisfaction? And I doubt it will ever change.
As I said those little to be mommas are caught between a rock and a hard place. They don't have a lot of options...too bad. Maybe if the government put as much effort into helping them out as they do into getting that baby dead, it would be helpful?
A couple up the road have an adopted baby, now about one year old. The mother was a Catholic girl who opted to have this baby rather than kill it. The couple who got this baby are as happy as larks! Maybe as a society we need to do more to ensure this scenario is repeated more often?
I also know another woman who chose to abort her baby over twenty years ago. She told me she still struggles with what she did and has some very black moments about it.
As I said it is a dirty business at the best of times and the only solution I can offer is give these girls an option besides abortion.

[cowman]

I agree with your comments cowman. I also have seen the horrible results of a woman who chose to have an abortion which was the result of a brutal ****. She didn't share this with anyone for years, just suffered in silence until she nearly went over the edge, then she turned to some quack counsellor that really drove her round the bend. If her family would have known in the first place they would have done everything they could to support her if she chose to keep the baby or have it aborted....her life is a mess and so is her family's.

Adoption is a wonderful solution to unwanted pregnancies but unfortunately the babies that are kept and abused aren't surrendered for adoption. It is a complex issue and one that MP's have struggled with I am sure.

[JD4ME]

Ted Menzies for Ag. MInister??
going back to the original thread, However this thread may be all time prize winner for a thread that goes the farthest away from the original post.
Anytime I hear about unwed mothers I think of Steve Martins bit about unwed mothers from the 1980's.
" I'm doing work with unwed mothers in my spare time, you know helping them get their start" His words not mine.

[cakadu]

Cowman, I have taken some time to think about your words and your original words regarding the mommas really put me off and I felt it was way over the line. Having said that it is a very touchy issue and one that people have strong beliefs in. (As an aside, it never ceases to amaze me that the most vocal pro-life are generally males who don't have to deal with the 9 months of pregnancy etc. Remember, not all pregnancies are simple and "text book", many women have complications.)

What does intrigue me is your point about the babies being precious and I agree that every one of them is. In a perfect world there would be people waiting for each and every baby, like your neighbors were. The reality is quite different and there are many babies and children in the fostering system that aren't readily adopted or taken in.

You've also made comment about not wanting a nanny state which is what would be needed in order to ensure that every single baby was born, no matter what, and that those babies were looked after until they were adopted or heaven forbid, through the fostering system and emancipated. Someone - most likely the government aka the taxpayer - would have to pay for those babies. Would you be willing to see that happen and be willing to pay no matter what the cost?

[cowman]

Well once upon a time it was done and we could afford it, so why not now? We can keep a SOB like Paul Bernardo alive for the rest of his life, but we can't spend a few bucks on some kid?
Who has the right to life? Without a doubt there are times when someone has to make a decision in problem births but that should never condone murder as a form of cheap birth control! And you and I pay for it?
The financial thing just doesn't wash. The same excuse could be used to knock all the MS or cancer people on the head, or perhaps the people who are retarded? We're not running a flock of chickens here? That kind of thinking was where the Nazis got started and it is a very slippery slope!
I'm not some kind of radical marching in the streets over this! I'm not condemning the little mothers. I don't even condemn the spineless creatures who run the government, the spineless creatures who uphold these laws! I do believe someday everyone of us will be judged on how we lived our lives, but then probably the majority doesn't so maybe they don't have to try to live a decent life?
Many women who had abortions are deeply disturbed about it for a long time. A conscience can be a real pain.

[cowman]

Oh and by the way, while I do give a small donation to the Pro life movement the larger part of what I give is to a fund set up by my church that supports unwed mothers.

[cowman]

I have a friend who is on the board of our local children's services. She was selected because she is Metis, and has an excellent understanding of native culture etc. The vast majority of children in crisis are native. She has shared some of the 'horror' stories with me about the abuse, neglect etc. that some of the children in care have endured. I am not suggesting that all neglected and abused children are native and certainly don't mean to infer that they are.

Unfortunately, for some of these kids, abuse, molestation etc. is all they have ever known.
I look at the little people in our family and see the innocence and know how much they are loved, and protected. It is so sad that all children don't get the same investment of time, love and care. Society pays over and over for the neglect and abuse of these kids, and more importantly the kids are paying a horrible price.

[cowman]

Well I doubt anyone is going to change anyone elses mind on this issue. I would ask though why stop at pre birth? Why not knock them on the head at a later date? Sort of like in China? If the baby is a girl you just starve them to death?
They come pretty close to murder with partial birth abortion? Induce the mother, manipulate a breech birth, deliver the body and then insert a needle into the back of the head and stir the brains around!
I don't know...I have a really hard time rationalizing that kind of behavior as anything but evil...but to each his own.

[cowman]

Oh by the way...you might find this interesting? My SO is like this ultra Liberal federalist! She sits on the board of the Liberal party, womans shelter, library board...well you get the idea! Thinks I am a regular fascist or something...calls me her old Klukker and rebel without a cause!
Sure makes for some interesting conversations around the old dinner table...but we respect each other viewpoints(or at least can laugh at them)...although we certainly don't agree! She is a Catholic girl so abortion isn't one of the things we disagree on.