EV back then?

[Guest]

like trying to resurrect the windmills that were on every Sask farm in the 30's & 40's , and were scrapped when reliable power came about

[Partners]

like trying to resurrect the windmills that were on every Sask farm in the 30's & 40's , and were scrapped when reliable power came about

It's easy to brain wash people who didn't live through it..
Same people who are banning plastic and going paper.
Thought we were all about saving the trees yrs ago?
Another full circle..

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Hey where did all the complainers and shit holers go after I posted the whole story about how renewables are starting to replace diesel generators and providing alot of electrcity in some communities in the north?

Maybe they are busy on their party lines or sitting in their outdoor toilets reading the Eatons catalogue for Christmas shopping? LOL

I'm actually on your side on this one. In a community with no connection to the broader grid, that relies on diesel fuel being brought in by ship, or barge or ice roads, or worst case, by air, anything that can reduce diesel usage is a benefit.

Turning off the generators in the middle of summer, and relying on solar is great.

Where we diverge, is using the grid as storage.

The articles I read indicated that a homeowner can sell their solar generation to the diesel powered grid and buy it back at par throughout the year. The utility scale solar wants to do the same thing.

Can you see any issues with this arrangement in a latitude with almost no daylight for months on end, and almost 24 hour dayight for months on end?

So everyone in town installs enough solar panels to generate their annual needs. ANd they sell all that surplus back to the grid all summer. Then they all draw it back out again at the same price all winter. No one pays any net power bills, just a credit all summer, and use it up all winter.

Who pays for the diesel fuel?

It's a dog chasing its own tail.

Any guesses as to what time of year has the highest electricity consumption in a cold dark place that uses electric heat?
Any guesses how much electicity you need in the summer in a place with almost 24 hour dayight, no need for AC, no need for heating, and no industry?


It only works if we accept that the solar being sold back into the grid has zero value, since there is no viable scalable economical grid scale storage. And almost no value for the solar power during the time of year when the sun is shining.

But if we go that route, then the payback on the solar installation makes the diesel fuel look cheap.

It works great if a few percent of the users want to do this. It is completely impossible on any scale larger than that.

Remember when we did the math on the cost of energy storage for seasonal use? Seasonal storage cannot and does not exist.

[Guest]

I wonder why they didn’t go wind instead ?
I worked in the NWT and the wind never stops there
So much so that even on a sunny day blowing snow nearly blocks the sun when it makes an appearance

[Guest]

I'm actually on your side on this one. In a community with no connection to the broader grid, that relies on diesel fuel being brought in by ship, or barge or ice roads, or worst case, by air, anything that can reduce diesel usage is a benefit.

Turning off the generators in the middle of summer, and relying on solar is great.

Where we diverge, is using the grid as storage.

The articles I read indicated that a homeowner can sell their solar generation to the diesel powered grid and buy it back at par throughout the year. The utility scale solar wants to do the same thing.

Can you see any issues with this arrangement in a latitude with almost no daylight for months on end, and almost 24 hour dayight for months on end?

So everyone in town installs enough solar panels to generate their annual needs. ANd they sell all that surplus back to the grid all summer. Then they all draw it back out again at the same price all winter. No one pays any net power bills, just a credit all summer, and use it up all winter.

Who pays for the diesel fuel?

It's a dog chasing its own tail.

Any guesses as to what time of year has the highest electricity consumption in a cold dark place that uses electric heat?
Any guesses how much electicity you need in the summer in a place with almost 24 hour dayight, no need for AC, no need for heating, and no industry?


It only works if we accept that the solar being sold back into the grid has zero value, since there is no viable scalable economical grid scale storage. And almost no value for the solar power during the time of year when the sun is shining.

But if we go that route, then the payback on the solar installation makes the diesel fuel look cheap.

It works great if a few percent of the users want to do this. It is completely impossible on any scale larger than that.

Remember when we did the math on the cost of energy storage for seasonal use? Seasonal storage cannot and does not exist.

Geez AF
Details not allowed
You know that

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I'm actually on your side on this one. In a community with no connection to the broader grid, that relies on diesel fuel being brought in by ship, or barge or ice roads, or worst case, by air, anything that can reduce diesel usage is a benefit.

Turning off the generators in the middle of summer, and relying on solar is great.

Where we diverge, is using the grid as storage.

The articles I read indicated that a homeowner can sell their solar generation to the diesel powered grid and buy it back at par throughout the year. The utility scale solar wants to do the same thing.

Can you see any issues with this arrangement in a latitude with almost no daylight for months on end, and almost 24 hour dayight for months on end?

So everyone in town installs enough solar panels to generate their annual needs. ANd they sell all that surplus back to the grid all summer. Then they all draw it back out again at the same price all winter. No one pays any net power bills, just a credit all summer, and use it up all winter.

Who pays for the diesel fuel?

It's a dog chasing its own tail.

Any guesses as to what time of year has the highest electricity consumption in a cold dark place that uses electric heat?
Any guesses how much electicity you need in the summer in a place with almost 24 hour dayight, no need for AC, no need for heating, and no industry?


It only works if we accept that the solar being sold back into the grid has zero value, since there is no viable scalable economical grid scale storage. And almost no value for the solar power during the time of year when the sun is shining.

But if we go that route, then the payback on the solar installation makes the diesel fuel look cheap.

It works great if a few percent of the users want to do this. It is completely impossible on any scale larger than that.

Remember when we did the math on the cost of energy storage for seasonal use? Seasonal storage cannot and does not exist.

Just thought I should bump this up so Chuck can respond. His opinions on matters have been much in demand lately, and he probably missed it.

[chuckChuck]

Just thought I should bump this up so Chuck can respond. His opinions on matters have been much in demand lately, and he probably missed it.

Pumped storage into reservoirs for hydro is one storage method already in use.

Compressed air driven turbines is another storage option already in use.

Converting solar and wind to ammonia is another option that is ready for commercialization in Canada and Australia

And batteries have a role to play in stabilizing supply as well. Already in use.

To say that renewables don't work or wont play a big part in our energy future is crap and you know it.

Alberta is proving you wrong every day leading the country in new renewable capacity growth.

[Hamloc]

Pumped storage into reservoirs for hydro is one storage method already in use.

Compressed air driven turbines is another storage option already in use.

Converting solar and wind to ammonia is another option that is ready for commercialization in Canada and Australia

And batteries have a role to play in stabilizing supply as well. Already in use.

To say that renewables don't work or wont play a big part in our energy future is crap and you know it.

Alberta is proving you wrong every day leading the country in new renewable capacity growth.

Another word salad Justin Trudeauesque answer. Just keep pumping out the talking points with little basis on reality. Yup Alberta keeps adding solar and wind capacity but as I have shown you with actual production numbers capacity doesn’t always equal production. As for making electricity cheaper with all this new renewable capacity, yesterday’s pool price for generation fluctuated between 10.7 cents a kilowatt to 99.9 cents a kilowatt at roughly 5 pm. Looks like all that renewable capacity is paying off, Chuck2 keep spewing out the virtue signalling talking points lol!

[Hamloc]

Good article on electric cars in the Financial Post Dec. 1 by Bjorn Lomberg: “The muddled reality of electric cars.” A good read.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Pumped storage into reservoirs for hydro is one storage method already in use.

Compressed air driven turbines is another storage option already in use.

Converting solar and wind to ammonia is another option that is ready for commercialization in Canada and Australia

And batteries have a role to play in stabilizing supply as well. Already in use.

To say that renewables don't work or wont play a big part in our energy future is crap and you know it.

Alberta is proving you wrong every day leading the country in new renewable capacity growth.

We were discussing remote northern communities installing solar. And the need for season long storage for that energy. And you announce that batteries are a solution. Remember when we destroyed that argument with the fact that seasonal storage with any known battery technology was going to cost more than the entire economic output of the country for multiple years?

Pumped hydro is still the only viable storage. And I just checked, and both the communities you brought up, old crow and iqaluit have significant elevation differences close by, and water. Could work. Of course, using water above ground year around in an acrtic environment won't present any complications with freezing. And digging reservoirs and creating dams in bed rock and permafrost is easy. And hauling in the equipment and fuel and building materials into a place like Old Crow with no roads, or Iqaluit with only very brief access by water, will be cheap and easy. Except, your very own NFU, and most first nations seem to be violently opposed to any type of hydro reservoirs, but I'm sure that is nothing that a few decades of consultations and bribes won't fix. Have you done the math as to how much water would be required to store enough energy for most of a year, even for a small village?

And that is the easy option. Now you propose to set up compresses air driven turbines and enough air storage for almost a year in a place with no roads? And build an ammonia production plant, almost a years worth of storage, and the power plant to convert it back into usable energy in a place with no roads?

Do the laws of physics, or even economics exist in your universe, or have they all been repealed?