EV back then?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

We were discussing remote northern communities installing solar. And the need for season long storage for that energy. And you announce that batteries are a solution. Remember when we destroyed that argument with the fact that seasonal storage with any known battery technology was going to cost more than the entire economic output of the country for multiple years?

Pumped hydro is still the only viable storage. And I just checked, and both the communities you brought up, old crow and iqaluit have significant elevation differences close by, and water. Could work. Of course, using water above ground year around in an acrtic environment won't present any complications with freezing. And digging reservoirs and creating dams in bed rock and permafrost is easy. And hauling in the equipment and fuel and building materials into a place like Old Crow with no roads, or Iqaluit with only very brief access by water, will be cheap and easy. Except, your very own NFU, and most first nations seem to be violently opposed to any type of hydro reservoirs, but I'm sure that is nothing that a few decades of consultations and bribes won't fix. Have you done the math as to how much water would be required to store enough energy for most of a year, even for a small village?

And that is the easy option. Now you propose to set up compresses air driven turbines and enough air storage for almost a year in a place with no roads? And build an ammonia production plant, almost a years worth of storage, and the power plant to convert it back into usable energy in a place with no roads?

Do the laws of physics, or even economics exist in your universe, or have they all been repealed?

And, no response from Chuck. Can't find a CBC article explaining how to do pumped hydro in the arctic?

[chuckChuck]

Renewable storage will be site specific. Never said these were all options for northern communities did I?

The International Energy Agency confirms how wrong you are about the viability of renewable electricity.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/article-global-renewable-power-capacity-growth-set-to-double-over-next-five/

Global renewable power capacity growth set to double over next five years, IEA says
Nina Chestney
London
Reuters

Global renewable power capacity growth is set to double over the next five years, driven by energy security concerns in the wake of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said on Tuesday.

In an annual report on the outlook for renewables, the IEA said capacity worldwide is expected to grow by 2,400 gigawatts (GW) – equal to the entire power capacity of China today – to 5,640 GW by 2027.

The increase is 30 per cent higher than the amount of growth forecast a year ago. High gas and power prices from a global energy crisis this year have made renewable power technologies more attractive.

Growth in renewables is also being driven by the United States, China and India implementing policies and market reforms to support renewables deployment more quickly than previously planned.

“Renewables were already expanding quickly, but the global energy crisis has kicked them into an extraordinary new phase of even faster growth as countries seek to capitalize on their energy security benefits,” said IEA Executive Director Fatih Birol.

“The world is set to add as much renewable power in the next five years as it did in the previous 20 years,” he added.

The report said renewables are set to account for over 90 per cent of global electricity expansion over the next five years, overtaking coal to become the largest source of global electricity by early 2025.

Global solar photovoltaic capacity is set to almost triple by 2027, becoming the largest source of power capacity in the world, while wind capacity is set to almost double.

Meanwhile biofuels demand is set to increase by 22 per cent by 2027, the report said.

[chuckChuck]

Here are 4 new renewable projects that will turn renewables into ammonia and hydrogen in Canada. Oh A5 didnt you say you would support renewables when viable storage becomes available? Its here already. that didnt take long.

https://www.ammoniaenergy.org/articles/new-canadian-export-projects-unveiled/

In the wake of the new Canada – Germany alliance for hydrogen exports, four significant production projects were announced last month.

The Belledune Port Authority (BPA) and Cross River Infrastructure Partners will develop a renewable hydrogen and ammonia production facility at the northeast Canadian port. 200MW of “clean, firm power” generation will be used to produce ammonia for exports & fuel applications, with expansion already planned to increase production capacity. The partners are targeting 2027 for commercial operations to come online.

Belledune is an established year-round port with easy access to the key European Union and North American markets we’re targeting. With most of the required infrastructure already in place, including a critical source of existing clean energy and substantial existing transmission to power our operations, we view this as a significant opportunity for everyone involved.
MD of Cross River Infrastructure Partners Rishi Jain in BPA’s official press release, 18 Aug 2022

PBA has also signed an agreement with Niedersachsen Ports GmbH, which oversees operations at Wilhelmshaven port in Germany. The agreement creates a direct trade corridor between the two locations, with Wilhelmshaven set to transform into an ammonia import hub.

Newfoundland: Project Lynx & Project Nujio’Qonik

Newfoundland’s grid is dominated by hydro, accounting for 96% of generated electricity. And although Newfoundland has a huge amount of untapped onshore wind potential, a moratorium on onshore wind development was only lifted earlier this year. That decision has paved the way for two renewable ammonia production projects, which have been proposed for the southwest corner of the island.

Project Nujio’Qonik is being developed by local organisation World Energy GH2. The registration lodged with Newfoundland’s Department of Environment and Climate Change indicates that 1 GW of onshore wind turbines on the Port au Port Peninsula will power a 500 MW electrolysis facility at the Port of Stephenville, which also features interconnections to the grid, onsite gas turbines (“fueled primarily by hydrogen”) and a plant that produces 100,000 tonnes per year of renewable ammonia. Two expansion phases of the same size would triple the output, with further wind turbine installations to occur north and south of the project location.

Project Lynx is being developed by Fortescue Future Industries. Located somewhere in the southwest corner of Newfoundland, two “600 MW green ammonia production trains” will be built at a production facility, powered by 2 GW of onshore wind. But where World Energy anticipates that their production facility will operate 50% of the time, FFI is planning for grid interconnections to provide power to their facility on a more regular basis, driving production of between 700,000 to 900,000 tonnes of ammonia each year. Both World Energy and FFI have engaged local First Nations communities from the early stages of project planning, with FFI and Miawpukek First Nation signing an MoU in August to work together on Project Lynx.

The “Spirit of Scotia”
Green Hydrogen International’s Spirit of Scotia project.Click to learn more. Green Hydrogen International’s Spirit of Scotia project.

And Green Hydrogen International have unveiled the Spirit of Scotia: a sprawling, multi-site, GW-scale renewable hydrogen project spread across the island of Nova Scotia. Based on the acquisition of rights to multiple underground salt caverns for hydrogen storage, the Spirit of Scotia could be as large as 500 GW in capacity, producing 43 million tonnes of renewable hydrogen each year. The project is based on offshore wind, with the Atlantic waters off Nova Scotia possessing enormous potential for wind power generation.

[WiltonRanch]

Here are 4 new renewable projects that will turn renewables into ammonia and hydrogen in Canada. Oh A5 didnt you say you would support renewables when viable storage becomes available? Its here already. that didnt take long.

https://www.ammoniaenergy.org/articles/new-canadian-export-projects-unveiled/

In the wake of the new Canada – Germany alliance for hydrogen exports, four significant production projects were announced last month.

The Belledune Port Authority (BPA) and Cross River Infrastructure Partners will develop a renewable hydrogen and ammonia production facility at the northeast Canadian port. 200MW of “clean, firm power” generation will be used to produce ammonia for exports & fuel applications, with expansion already planned to increase production capacity. The partners are targeting 2027 for commercial operations to come online.

Belledune is an established year-round port with easy access to the key European Union and North American markets we’re targeting. With most of the required infrastructure already in place, including a critical source of existing clean energy and substantial existing transmission to power our operations, we view this as a significant opportunity for everyone involved.
MD of Cross River Infrastructure Partners Rishi Jain in BPA’s official press release, 18 Aug 2022

PBA has also signed an agreement with Niedersachsen Ports GmbH, which oversees operations at Wilhelmshaven port in Germany. The agreement creates a direct trade corridor between the two locations, with Wilhelmshaven set to transform into an ammonia import hub.

Newfoundland: Project Lynx & Project Nujio’Qonik

Newfoundland’s grid is dominated by hydro, accounting for 96% of generated electricity. And although Newfoundland has a huge amount of untapped onshore wind potential, a moratorium on onshore wind development was only lifted earlier this year. That decision has paved the way for two renewable ammonia production projects, which have been proposed for the southwest corner of the island.

Project Nujio’Qonik is being developed by local organisation World Energy GH2. The registration lodged with Newfoundland’s Department of Environment and Climate Change indicates that 1 GW of onshore wind turbines on the Port au Port Peninsula will power a 500 MW electrolysis facility at the Port of Stephenville, which also features interconnections to the grid, onsite gas turbines (“fueled primarily by hydrogen”) and a plant that produces 100,000 tonnes per year of renewable ammonia. Two expansion phases of the same size would triple the output, with further wind turbine installations to occur north and south of the project location.

Project Lynx is being developed by Fortescue Future Industries. Located somewhere in the southwest corner of Newfoundland, two “600 MW green ammonia production trains” will be built at a production facility, powered by 2 GW of onshore wind. But where World Energy anticipates that their production facility will operate 50% of the time, FFI is planning for grid interconnections to provide power to their facility on a more regular basis, driving production of between 700,000 to 900,000 tonnes of ammonia each year. Both World Energy and FFI have engaged local First Nations communities from the early stages of project planning, with FFI and Miawpukek First Nation signing an MoU in August to work together on Project Lynx.

The “Spirit of Scotia”
Green Hydrogen International’s Spirit of Scotia project.Click to learn more. Green Hydrogen International’s Spirit of Scotia project.

And Green Hydrogen International have unveiled the Spirit of Scotia: a sprawling, multi-site, GW-scale renewable hydrogen project spread across the island of Nova Scotia. Based on the acquisition of rights to multiple underground salt caverns for hydrogen storage, the Spirit of Scotia could be as large as 500 GW in capacity, producing 43 million tonnes of renewable hydrogen each year. The project is based on offshore wind, with the Atlantic waters off Nova Scotia possessing enormous potential for wind power generation.

Will it be a success like muskrat falls? The iron bumper factory?

[chuckChuck]

Lots of jobs and economic activity based on renewable energy. And a few flat earth naysayers said it it couldn't be done!

[Hamloc]

Renewable storage will be site specific. Never said these were all options for northern communities did I?

The International Energy Agency confirms how wrong you are about the viability of renewable electricity.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/article-global-renewable-power-capacity-growth-set-to-double-over-next-five/

Global renewable power capacity growth set to double over next five years, IEA says
Nina Chestney
London
Reuters

Global renewable power capacity growth is set to double over the next five years, driven by energy security concerns in the wake of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said on Tuesday.

In an annual report on the outlook for renewables, the IEA said capacity worldwide is expected to grow by 2,400 gigawatts (GW) – equal to the entire power capacity of China today – to 5,640 GW by 2027.

The increase is 30 per cent higher than the amount of growth forecast a year ago. High gas and power prices from a global energy crisis this year have made renewable power technologies more attractive.

Growth in renewables is also being driven by the United States, China and India implementing policies and market reforms to support renewables deployment more quickly than previously planned.

“Renewables were already expanding quickly, but the global energy crisis has kicked them into an extraordinary new phase of even faster growth as countries seek to capitalize on their energy security benefits,” said IEA Executive Director Fatih Birol.

“The world is set to add as much renewable power in the next five years as it did in the previous 20 years,” he added.

The report said renewables are set to account for over 90 per cent of global electricity expansion over the next five years, overtaking coal to become the largest source of global electricity by early 2025.

Global solar photovoltaic capacity is set to almost triple by 2027, becoming the largest source of power capacity in the world, while wind capacity is set to almost double.

Meanwhile biofuels demand is set to increase by 22 per cent by 2027, the report said.

Chuck2 there is that “capacity” word again. The question is how much actually usable production does that translate into and are they able to produce electricity when it is most needed?

[chuckChuck]

Chuck2 there is that “capacity” word again. The question is how much actually usable production does that translate into and are they able to produce electricity when it is most needed?

Well in the case of the proposed renewable storage of hydrogen and ammonia plants, the production will depend on the wind and sun resources available every day. That will be site specific.

And the customers can use the hydrogen and ammonia however they want when needed.

But your assumption that intermittent renewables can't be stored or provide usable energy for other purposes will fade away over next few years and decades.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Well in the case of the proposed renewable storage of hydrogen and ammonia plants, the production will depend on the wind and sun resources available every day. That will be site specific.

And the customers can use the hydrogen and ammonia however they want when needed.

But your assumption that intermittent renewables can't be stored or provide usable energy for other purposes will fade away over next few years and decades.

I hope you are right, and I can admit that I am wrong when these projects are up and running.

And if they can do it at a full life cycle cost that isn't multiple times higher than natural gas, that will just be a bonus.

I'll bet my money the same way Wilton does, that this turns into yet another government sponsored eastern Canadian boondoggle of epic proportions. Producing products for which there is no market, sold into a region which won't have an industrial base by the time this is completed, at a cost which won't be remotely able to compete with cheap Russian gas by that time.

[chuckChuck]

Where have we heard "this will never work" before? LOL It's the mantra of Canada is a shit hole club.

Did you look in your backyard A5?

The private sector is building wind and solar facilities at a record pace in Alberta. I guess they're spending good money because the economics are bad and it doesn't work? LOL Go figure?

Ammonia and hydrogen are the next steps.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

As I said Chuck, I will give this project the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise..

Now, can you address my concerns about energy storage in the remote Arctic communities using solar power? What existing technologies would be applicable an economical in those circumstances? You are the one who brought this up, the proceeded to provide a lists of pie in the sky storage technologies in reference to using solar in the arctic. Now you seem to be avoiding the topic completely.

If there was ever a place where renewable energy and energy storage should make economic sense, this is it. If there exists season long storage technology that works anywhere else in the world economically, then it will most definitely work economically in these places.

[Sheepwheat]

Where have we heard "this will never work" before? LOL It's the mantra of Canada is a shit hole club.

Did you look in your backyard A5?

The private sector is building wind and solar facilities at a record pace in Alberta. I guess they're spending good money because the economics are bad and it doesn't work? LOL Go figure?

Ammonia and hydrogen are the next steps.

He LITERALLY JUST SAID THAT HE IS OPEN MINDED ENOUGH TO HAVE HIS MIND CHANGED. GET LOST ALREADY.

To everyone else. Stop feeding this bottom feeding troll. That’s all he is doing. Trying to get a rise, trying to annoy. How do I know that? Because literally, there is no one this dumb. At least I haven’t met anyone who is. You know, in real life.

Thanks.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

He LITERALLY JUST SAID THAT HE IS OPEN MINDED ENOUGH TO HAVE HIS MIND CHANGED. GET LOST ALREADY.

To everyone else. Stop feeding this bottom feeding troll. That’s all he is doing. Trying to get a rise, trying to annoy. How do I know that? Because literally, there is no one this dumb. At least I haven’t met anyone who is. You know, in real life.

Thanks.

I used to believe the same thing. That no one could actually be this ill informed and ignorant in real life. That this is just a show to get attention online. But I think he really is this dumb.

[Hamloc]

Well in the case of the proposed renewable storage of hydrogen and ammonia plants, the production will depend on the wind and sun resources available every day. That will be site specific.

And the customers can use the hydrogen and ammonia however they want when needed.

But your assumption that intermittent renewables can't be stored or provide usable energy for other purposes will fade away over next few years and decades.

So your defence of the productive capabilities of solar and wind is using an industrial offshore wind installation built to produce ammonia and hydrogen for export?! Hmmm, how does that work for providing our electricity needs within Canada on a daily basis?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

So your defence of the productive capabilities of solar and wind is using an industrial offshore wind installation built to produce ammonia and hydrogen for export?! Hmmm, how does that work for providing our electricity needs within Canada on a daily basis?

All we have to do is build pipelines across Canada, including those remote northern settlements where Chuck insists renewable energy with storage is the answer, then send the hydrogen and ammonia through said pipelines, then build more facilities that can turn those products into useful energy. All at about 30% round trip energy efficiency at best. And that is before you put them into a pipeline and spend more energy transporting said products.
And we all know how easy it is to get approval to build new pipelines in this country. And all of the above are practically free to build.
And there are absolutely no technical issues with storing or transporting either hydrogen or ammonia.

[chuckChuck]

So you cant build hydrogen and ammonia plants in Alberta or Saskatchewan? LOL