How a few rich dairy farmers....

[goalieguy847]

How many billions would be subsidized to the dairy farmers if the quotas were removed and the system dismantled?

[blackpowder]

The stupid part about it all is that wisconsin basically has the same size herd as canada... and it actually produces alot more to their gdp than the canadian one does ( which makes no sense to me).

Plus... even if the us had full access to our dairy market.. we have the population of what... new york city?
we have such a spread out population that i cant imagine they would gain a hell of alot of market share. People will still buy canadian and infact, i imagine would buy MORE canadian because we could buy local milk directly from our neighbours.
i work with our own dairy neighbour. Hes amazing. Haul his feed for him.. sell him barley... i use his tractors or whatever in a pinch...


But i cant get a 5 gallon pail of milk to make my own butter... or cheese.. ( not that i know how) but still. How incredibly effing stupid is that.
when you make the cheese you pastuerize the stuff anyways.

Its so stupid. Just absurd.

" canada has better dairy products"

Bull cockery!
our butter isnt even spreadable at room temperature. It was when i was a kid...but it sure isnt now.
we have 2 kinds of butter... salted.. unsalted. Go down to a grocery store in new york state.... butters... cheeses galore...

what a dumb ass system. Plus... the incidence of dairy poisoning in the states is basically the same as in canada per capita.

And.
World Award winning Canadian products can't be sold out of province.
And the two large processor's are.... multinational and QC based.

[blackpowder]

They're already subsidized by consumers.
As suggested in the podcast.
A small portion of the retail price feeds a buyout fund over time.

[wrongway]

Price of quota is determined by the profitability of the dairy. Guaranteed cost of production means that every bit of profit goes into securing more quota for herd expansion. Dairymen who got free quota when system came in caused the quota price to rise where it is , why should society cover any loss if the system is changed? Quota is a.number.on the balance sheet and in no way influences profitability unless.of.course you mortgage the farm to buy it.

Go to Wisconsin and try their dairy...its fresh and very tasty and keeps for a long long time. Unlike Canadian milk and cheese with short shelf lives because over production means that the raw milk is stored for way too long before being processed and sent out to stores. All too often it is dumped down the sewer.

[blackpowder]

As suggested, there is a responsibility to "make whole".
We created the monster. It has to be paid out somehow.

[Grahamp]

It doesn’t need to be subsidized/paid out to get rid of it. The returns on quota are shockingly low because they are paying way too much for it. The market should not reward such reckless irresponsible purchasing. It would be like bailing out NFT buyers. Let them pay their debt off but beyond that forget it. Just announce that over 12 years they are going to reduce the tariffs on imports to 0. No one ends up with debt owing that way. (Not many quota loans longer than 10 years) Let’s say the tariffs are 250% you just reduce the tariff by 21 percentage points per year. So presumably the first 5-7 years will be business as usual as you drop from 250% tariff down to roughly 100%. Somewhere between 50%-75% it will probably start to make sense for US companies to start exporting to Canada. By year 12 it’s a 0 percent tariff and the market will dictate whose product gets purchased/imported/exported etc. It’s enough time for everyone to pay off their quota loans and enough time to start branding your product as made in Canadian and building that market if that’s what you want.

[blackpowder]

I'm not a lawyer.
But today it's an asset.
Made worthless by govt decree.
It would be a precedent that wouldn't hold water and I wouldn't want to suffer when my turn came.
???

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I'm not a lawyer.
But today it's an asset.
Made worthless by govt decree.
It would be a precedent that wouldn't hold water and I wouldn't want to suffer when my turn came.
???

Unintended consequences.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
Comes to mind.

But We are certain that if we allow the government to mandate energy and electricity generation, and carbon credits electric vehicle mandates etc, won't end up with the exact same conundrum down the road.

And grain production is just as much in bed with government policies. When uneconomic biofuel mandates eventually end, will we demand the taxpayers should fail us out for our poor investments, based on unsustainable government policies?

[goalieguy847]

Side topic here as we are going sideways...
whats more sustainable in this day and age...?

Should we subsidize renewable energy growth
Or subsidize oil and gas...

Specifically the suncors/ syncrudes of the world?

Our local gas plant just went bankrupt. For the 20th time in the last 5 yrs...
we have about 13 wells on our various lands...
Only getting paid now on what looks like half... anything is a super new producing well, wont collect on.
cant lock them out.. and also cant demand payment.

personally i would rather subsidize a solar farm on our land than anymore oil and gas.

Atleast with it being somewhat new and a starting point ( of sorts) we can atleast mandate who will pay for the cleanup and reclamation of the renewable project ( if our govt is smart anyways).

currently in alberta the only wells that are being cleaned up are being done so by federal $. 0 dollars allocated by UCP currently.

So whats smarter to subsidize?
The correct answer is probably...
Neither.

Just like our taxpayers shouldnt be funding dairy ... or any supply management system.. only to pay more than nearly every single state/ country that doesnt have supply management!

Or air canada bailout.
or gmc
Or any bank

Or any farmer

You dont make it?
Too bad.
Someone elses turn!

[13stripe]

As suggested, there is a responsibility to "make whole".
We created the monster. It has to be paid out somehow.

It was like any other investment, I have yet to be made "whole" on my investments that didn't turn out. The fact that it was an investment that was at the whim of trade negotiations made it risky. The closest would be the crow payout which was gone in the first year with higher freight.