Seed place phos question

[Ronski]

Reading Jazz and Furrow about seed place phos I am curious.
If consistent soil tests show P levels are good could I band all of my fert in the fall (usually use 120-40-30-20 actual) but bump it up to 120-60-30-20 and seed without any starter? Or would I still need a low rate of dry or liquid phos dribbled/sprayed in the furrow for a pop-up effect in cereals?
I would probably still use 20 lbs of 10-50-0 with canola on top of the 120-60-30-20 (10" spacing 3" inch seed spread).
How much liquid phos are guys using for pop-up?

Thanks

[jazz]

Furrow is the expert on phos. Dont follow me. I broadcasted all mine like they do in the corn belt. Ag reps hate me.

[Sodbuster]

You will still need phos in the seed row otherwise you will see a delay in maturity and possibly lower yields. Roots would take a while to get to the band and sometimes with the high rate of N in that band it could take longer to penetrate it.

[poorboy]

I think you will be just fine applying it all in the fall. John Harpiak did lots of trials with Westco fertilizer years ago and there was no yield drag.

Seemed the hot fall fertlizer band prevented the phos from getting tied up and by spring the N had diffused enough to allow roots to access the P.

Only downside was in a wet fall there could be N loss. Today we have more options to apply to N fertlizer to slow N losses when the ground is warm and wet.

[blackpowder]

Can't say.
Years ago they weren't targeting or expecting our yields.
Here. One spring dealer fkd up on blend and he spread our phos after seeding at a heavy rate. That year, you could see the line where blend changed. Never spread phos here.

[Hamloc]

Reading Jazz and Furrow about seed place phos I am curious.
If consistent soil tests show P levels are good could I band all of my fert in the fall (usually use 120-40-30-20 actual) but bump it up to 120-60-30-20 and seed without any starter? Or would I still need a low rate of dry or liquid phos dribbled/sprayed in the furrow for a pop-up effect in cereals?
I would probably still use 20 lbs of 10-50-0 with canola on top of the 120-60-30-20 (10" spacing 3" inch seed spread).
How much liquid phos are guys using for pop-up?

Thanks

I am curious, is this irrigation or dry land fertilization rates? I have concluded I am cheap on my fertilizer spending as you are applying 30 lbs more N than I put on canola and 40 lbs. more N than I put on wheat.. What are your target yields? Myself, I don’t put any phos in the seed row.

[Ronski]

Targeting 70 bu canola and 100 bu hrs on dryland near Lacombe (not usually dry like this year, gonna be a disappointment if this keeps up)

[furrowtickler]

You will still need phos in the seed row otherwise you will see a delay in maturity and possibly lower yields. Roots would take a while to get to the band and sometimes with the high rate of N in that band it could take longer to penetrate it.

Pretty much sums up what we have seen for years
you may or may not see a yield benefit but absolutely will see a maturity difference if no phos in seed row .
As far as rates that’s area specific, even farm specific.
We use 4 gal / ac Alpine in seed row . Most effective to stream on right behind the opener so it’s below the seed .
Not an expert by any means but have listened to a lot of experts for over 20 years and it just basic agronomy with phos and crop growth at the end of the day

[furrowtickler]

You want to get quick early growth and drive the root system early ,
was critical this year with very cool and wet conditions after seeding .

[Hamloc]

Targeting 70 bu canola and 100 bu hrs on dryland near Lacombe (not usually dry like this year, gonna be a disappointment if this keeps up)

I guess I look at historical yields and 70 bu canola and 100 bu hrs are once in 20 year yields but you get more rain as a rule around Lacombe than where I am 40 minutes to the east. This year we are all in the same boat marooned on a dry beach.