Flaman Claimed Buybacks Not Legal

[Incognito]

Why would you even spout such diatribe when any new grains under STE's would be challenged by the other 147 sane members.

Remember the last vote on STE's was 147-1.

Yes the CWB is extracting a premium of some of the wheat they sell. Not all. Some.

What about barley, Vader? The CWB costs western Canadian farmers money.

And I don't need to read the duelling economists studies.

The one commissioner with more integrity than the others put together, quit because the CWB was costing western Canada 300 million dollars by being in the barley market.

The Western Grain Marketing Panel even recognized a change was required in barley.

Fix what you have first before you start spouting off about how much money is LEFT (pun intended) on the table with other grains.

[parsley]

Vader,

The CWB Act has two functions....a national one and a regional one. Part I in the Act reflects these functions.

Once again, you begin talking about regional marketing of wheat and barley in Part III. We can change focus and discuss regional marketing if you wish, Vader, about the Board selling the grain that is offerred to it, pooling, adding grains, and so on.

But what we began discussing was called the Constitution of the CWB Act and I was refering to the CWB's National mandated responsibilities, which of course, includes the Federal Government's duties to finance the national responsibilities of the Act.

It seems as if you either cannot differentiate between these two functions .... national or regional.

Or are you are purposely trying to make the CWB's dual function appear to be just one function....a Designated Area function, so that you can justify downloading national licensing costs on unsuspecting Prairie farmers?

Do you want to continue discussing NATIONAL responsibilities, or not?

Parsley

[parsley]

Incognito,

Naturally, Vader would like to avoid talking about the Fed's financial responsibilities and focus the discussion on the CWB selling grain in the DA.

After all, he could then reason he had 'discussed' it with the a large readership in the farm community (readers on Agri-ville), and perhaps he could even 'legitimately' recommend that the CWB should market canola and flax after such a consultation.

Not the DA, but discussing the National responsibilities the CWB has, could be very interesting, indeed.

Parsley

[Vader]

Parsley,

The CWB is all about selling western Canadian wheat and barley. It was formed back in 1935 because of farmers lobby efforts over the previous decade or more. The prarie pools were ineffectual without a federal mandate. The feds finally gave in and initiated the CWB Act albeit very reluctantly. In fact from 1935 till 1943 while the CWB did exist it was toothless because it did not have exclusive marketing authority. When the Feds finally decided to make the CWB the exclusive marketer of wheat during the war it was to their own benefit to prevent runaway inflation since they had promised wage and price controls as part of the war effort.

So the CWB has had a colored past but it has always been about western Canadian wheat. It was western farmers who organized the pools and who lobbied the gov't for a wheat board. When it was granted it had to be done by a Federal statute to make it work.

So there you go Parsley. I have talked about the national nature of the CWB.

Back to the designated area. The intent of the CWB Act was to allow western farmers to market their grain in an "orderly" fashion. Since this legislation was enacted at the behest of western wheat farmers the intent of the licencing provisions was to prevent leakage of western wheat out of the designated area where it would be marketed as non-designated area wheat and would then be destructive to the original concept.

[Vader]

Incognito,

The idea of the CWB marketing other grains was not mine. It was Parsley who suggested it. I was just following up. In reality I think that the CWB could be of benefit to western farmers marketing other crops outside of the single desk. I would hope that as the CWB moves to distance itself from the Federal government that it would be granted the right to cash purchase other crops. That would be my idea of a dual market.

In the WTO it was not 147 to 1. In fact the WTO negotiations take place behind closed doors and I doubt anybody but those behind the doors know what was discussed.

How many of the 147 countries give a damn about the CWB? I would suggest the only countries who really care are the wheat exporting countries. That would include Canada, US, EU, Australia, Argentina, Ukraine, Russia, Khazakistan and a few other minor players. The only ones of those who are actively lobbing against the CWB are the US and EU. And in fact the EU is becoming increasingly agitated about the falling US dollar and less focussed on Canada.

So the real vote was 2 to 1 with Australia not willing to speak up against the US.

One of the main discussion points of the WTO is trade distortion. Canada has agreed to give up the CWB guarantees while the US continues to use similar programs such as the Loan Deficiency Program (LDP) under the guise of domestic support. Meanwhile some thirteen trade actions by the US against the CWB have failed to show any evidence that the CWB is guilty of any trade distorting (non-commercial) practices.

In fact one of the recent US Department of Commerce investigations where US millers were required to provide information showed that those US millers paid more for Canadian durum wheat than they did for US durum wheat 59 out of 60 months. So if anything the CWB actually drives international prices up, which is what we as farmers would expect for our marketing agency. Undisciplined selling by US farmers (and Ukranian and Argentinian farmers etc.) tends to drive prices down and the same would be true in Canada were it not for the CWB.

[TOM4CWB]

Vader,

This was the purpose of the CWB Act, Part IV:

If a Canadian grain company buys off "designated area" farmers at the initial price ( or any price lower than market value)... say 60% of that days market price... then the CWB has a statutory obligation to charge the difference (between the lower value paid and the higher market price)... and add this back to the pool accounts... if that grain company wants an export license for "DA" grain; and sell this grain itself.

Since farmer's produce is not graded... is not in the flow of trade and commerce... the original intent till 1992 was that farmer's could sell their own produce without CWB involvement.

I had many farm neighbours do exactly this... export to the US... without an export license... or with one it didn't matter....

And the CWB Orderly market was still in tact then.

The misapplication of the CWB Act is clearly apparent as Lorne Hein stated in 1992 that there was nothing the CWB could do about farmers exporting their own grain; themselves.

I know you are aware of all of these facts Vader.

It is too bad the CWB would not concentrate on marketing our grain... doing the best job in that area... and stop spending my money on wild goose chases that will exterminate the CWB at the end of the day.

If the new CWB DPC is actually accurate... isn't the CWB single desk advantage is gone anyway, as the premium US price is scooped by those with DPC sales outside the pool?

What is the difference between this program and no-cost export licenses... except the CWB admin. cost being charged?

[Vader]

Tom, it was never the intent of the CWB Act to allow farmers to sell their own grain in competition with the pools. It was exactly the opposite. The people who formed the original "pools" in the prairie provinces found that without a Federally mandated "orderly" marketing system where the CWB did all marketing of wheat and wheat products the pooling system would not work. The prairie pools lost millions of dollars in the 1920's because they did not have the Federal legislation giving them the exclusive right to market wheat.

For this reason farmers lobbied the Federal government for a CWB Act which would prohibit all but the CWB from engaging in the marketing of prairie wheat.

This is what we have and that is why exporting of wheat and wheat products is a prohibitied activity under the Act. You can look for all the loopholes you want in the definition of grain and the price inside and outside Canada etc., etc. but the fact remains that for the CWB to work properly they must have exclusive rights to marketing western Canadian wheat. The protection within the Act is enshrined in the words "orderly" marketing and the prohibition of exports.

The CWB allows producers to "compete" with the CWB only when they set a bar for those producers to cross. That bar is that the pooling system is paid the value of the grain which the CWB would have received if the CWB had done the marketing. In this manner those who are able to discover a premium in a niche market or an organic market are allowed to capture 100% of that premium for their marketing activities. If the producer is simply marketing to a US elevator for cash flow purposes and is not selling at a premium to what the CWB would sell into that market then that producer will lose money but the pool is kept whole. The pool has been compensated for the value of the grain because the producer has purchased the grain from the pool at the value that would have been achieved by the CWB.

For those producers who want to market into the US and who do not want to expose themselves to the downside risk of the pooling system there are the producer pricing options. The DPC is the latest of those offerings and producers must decide if these risk management tools make more sense than the traditional pooling system.

No matter how you slice it if you want to market in the US you have to pay the CWB what they would have gotten for that sale. If you want to market into Japan you have to pay the CWB what they would have gotten from that sale to Japan. Regardless of the evolution of the pooling system and I will be the first to admit that it is not perfect the hurdle to compete with the CWB will always be the same. You have to be able to a better job of marketing than the CWB in order to profit from it. You will not be allowed to claim a disproportionate share of a premium market just because you live close to the border or have a bigger, faster truck than your neighbor.

[cropduster]

Vader,your last post really is full of holes if not UNTRUTHS !!!Nice try tho`.The old LIES/fear mongering just don`t cut it any more. The CWB was mandated federally to keep the price of wheat DOWN for Mother England during/after the war years PERIOD.Try to find a better source of oxygen it`ll make things clearer!Who knows,you might even be able to distinguish a LIBERAL from a CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!

[Vader]

Cropduster,

You are actually correct. After years of lobbying by farmers for the CWB to be formed the government did form a voluntary CWB in 1935 but they actually legislated the price of wheat for the CWB such that the open market was higher and the CWB was unattractive. Such was the governments reluctance to grant the farmers wishes.

Later during the war the government was an opportunity to keep wheat prices from costing them money. Having instituted wage and price controls and promised the millers a set price for their wheat it was beginning to cost the government a lot of money to continue to buy wheat on the open market. The government finally granted the farmers wishes to give the CWB complete control over grain marketing but they did it for their own reasons. Then following the war they continued to use the CWB for their own purposes to subsidize the rebuilding effort in England and made a long term committment for wheat which cost prairie farmers a lot of money as grain prices soared after the war.

It is no wonder that farmers have a bad impression of the CWB from those years.

In spite of its colored past the CWB was formed to regulate trade of wheat in Western Canada. It was never about Eastern Canada and everything that I said earlier still applies.

The good thing today is that we have made great advances in getting the government out of the CWB. It is now under the control of farmer elected directors.

I look forward to the day when it is completely delinked from government, and is able to set its own initial prices and adjustment payments, appoint its own directors, make capital investments, and market other crops.

[TOM4CWB]

Vader;

A valiant effort at avoiding the intent of the CWB Act as written... CWB spin supreme.

Seed and Feed exemptions are not in the CWB Act, yet exist without obvious peril to present CWB Operations as you see them.

US northern tier states have unlimited access to CWB quality CWRS seed, yet economics and lack of real premiums dictate growing other wheat... proof CWB premiums are delusinary musings of fed. bueacratic vegetation left over from the second world war.

US HRS quality actually brought a premium to CWRS for a significant period last year.

There are many different ways of marketing a product... no doubt about it.

CWB marketers who insist on jailing those wheat farmers who objected to being scalped as many were by the Canadian system in the 1993-95 period... to pad large corporate pockets at the expense of wheat growers... will not and still cannot be tolerated by an honest Canadian Society today.

It is sad how much the CWB (and those who profit from it) will delude themselves to ignore reality... at the expence of those who work hard and deserve much much more!

Vader, Thou Shall not steal.

Theft is theft... if personal property is taken without permission.