How much extra N to add following large cereal crop?

[poorboy]

I had a very good barley crop this last year. Very thick and tall with yields ranging from 85-145 across the field and averaged 110. Huge mat of barley residue on the soil surface and no fall rain to start the decomposition. Very dry here.

Plan to grow canola on this field next and am wondering how much N is going to get tied up by the barley residue? Hate having to buy more of the expensive Urea but do you think that 50 lbs of N is going to disappear into the barley residue or more/less?

Don't want to set myself up for a crop disaster by not accounting for the large residue that needs N to decompose.

[fjlip]

Thought same applying the N in October, there has to be tied up N and so dry, no decomposition. Soil test in May-June?

[DaneG]

[furrowtickler]

Shoot for 40 tops being that your very dry
You can add N and or other nutrients after herbicide if moisture conditions improve. Simple tissue testing will give you a benchmark. You will need a huge amount of very timely rain to achieve 60 .
Each to their own but unless you need a tax write off , maybe better to keep some of your fertilizer dollars in your pocket , not your retailers if it don’t significantly rain next year .
Just a suggestion.
Canola is very elastic and will respond to N later than most crops for added yield if conditions get favourable

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Canola is very elastic and will respond to N later than most crops for added yield if conditions get favourable

I second the indeterminance of Canola. And the other side of that coin, is that the that is tied up decomposing the straw will come available at some point during the season, or the N that was tied up last year etc. In theory, since the N gets released eventually, in the long run, you don't need any extra N to decompose the straw unless this is the very first time you've ever had these conditions.

At least that has been my observations. The first few years of no till and huge straw loads, the crops were terribly yellow in the spring, but the improved throughout the growing season, and finished very well. Must have reached an equilibrium now, since that is no longer as obvious.

[poorboy]

In 2020 I had a very good wheat crop with lots of residue. In 2021 seeded canola and it was dry like most of the prairies and the canola crop was pale, short and very poor yielding where the wheat straw was spread and on the outside of the straw chopper spread the canola crop was at least 3x higher yield and no symptoms of N shortage.

Don’t really want a repeat of that.

The chart for barley and canola shows the nutrients required to grow a crop, but not how many nutrients might get tied up.

In 2021 it seemed like the initial spring moisture was good enough to tie up the N in the previous years wheat straw, but there was not enough moisture to decompose it and release the N back.

[furrowtickler]

In 2020 I had a very good wheat crop with lots of residue. In 2021 seeded canola and it was dry like most of the prairies and the canola crop was pale, short and very poor yielding where the wheat straw was spread and on the outside of the straw chopper spread the canola crop was at least 3x higher yield and no symptoms of N shortage.

Don’t really want a repeat of that.

The chart for barley and canola shows the nutrients required to grow a crop, but not how many nutrients might get tied up.

In 2021 it seemed like the initial spring moisture was good enough to tie up the N in the previous years wheat straw, but there was not enough moisture to decompose it and release the N back.

What about a very shallow run with a high speed disc ?
Will leave 50% standing stubble but chop and blacken the soil surface somewhat.
We have done this in low areas to break up straw and reduce frost risk for canola emergence without drying the soil too deep .
Always have good growth in those areas after doing it , otherwise end up with what you seen .

[poorboy]

What about a very shallow run with a high speed disc ?
Will leave 50% standing stubble but chop and blacken the soil surface somewhat.
We have done this in low areas to break up straw and reduce frost risk for canola emergence without drying the soil too deep .
Always have good growth in those areas after doing it , otherwise end up with what you seen .

I don’t own a high speed disc or even have any around to rent. Think a spring heavy harrow pass would help? Fields were heavy harrowed in the fall.

It is only 2 fields of barley that I am worried about. Wheat straw turned to dust coming out of the combine.

[goalieguy847]

Well... i have a couple fields that are basically the same. Barley...large yield..etc. i put down some fall nh3 on one but never made it to the other.
I did float sulphur fines on both but now probably plan on just jamming down 60 to 70 lbs actual N during seeding.

There are so many variables to worry about that are beyond our control in order for a fantastic ( 55+ bushel crop) to occur and its mainly moisture and late july heat blast that bring it down. We have grown 60 bushel canola on garbage land and 30 on beautiful primo stuff. This past year we had some do 70 on our " weakest " soil that is by no means a #1 or #2.

We honestly never fertilize to anywhere near what a soil test recommends ( theyre hogwash if done incorrectly) and generally treat our canola acres identically every year..nothing special and nothing different.
Infact,
This yr we did some more trial work with a monosem planter outfitted for canola and sidexside with a drill it beat up on it by 4 bushels...all the while having just put seed into the ground without any fertilizer...while the drilled got full rate phos/ potash.
Point being..
Its a crapshoot.

I figure going in with 60 to 80 lbs N gives it fighters chance but ALMOST more importantly is seeding date, soil temp at seeding, seeding rate and seeding speed ( to control depth).

My biggest issue with the idea of topdressing pre 3-5 leaf would be locking up of N with the heavy stubble AND conditions above the surface to allow that N to convert to available form AND locate to the root zone in a reasonable time. Alot of uncontrollable variables for an increased cost ( and effort) when jamming down an extra 5-10 lbs with the seed is probably the safest bet.

One question to be asked is what does the rest of your nutrient program look like and what sort of CEC and organic matter do you see on soil samples.

Is Nitrogen going to be your limiting factor in your fertilizer program?

[Herc]

You lost me at 110 bpa barley…..

[AlbertaFarmer5]

You lost me at 110 bpa barley…..

Also known as a crop failure to some of my neighbors.

[SASKFARMER]

that’s what we shoot for on wheat

[TASFarms]

Why not a pulse crop.

[seldomseen]

I read Phil Needham's book on growing high yielding wheat and I think he says if you are growing wheat on wheat straw to bump up N by 20 ib. to make up for the N that gets tied up in the straw.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I read Phil Needham's book on growing high yielding wheat and I think he says if you are growing wheat on wheat straw to bump up N by 20 ib. to make up for the N that gets tied up in the straw.

Around here, a rank Canola crop grows more tons of straw than a rank wheat or barley crop.

But the stalks are also much more resilient to breakdown compared to the cereal straw. Still find solid canola stems years later, so maybe this isn't relevant?

I'm finding I get better wheat yields with wheat on wheat, than wheat on canola, all things being equal.

But this area is unique, nothing works according to the textbooks.