Converting to hay

[Sheepwheat]

I hope to get into the hay business more as it fits my farm model better. I hate being short feed, and so the plan is the years where I have lots of excess, I would sell. I know the risks of hay buyers and bla bla bla, I don’t want to go there in this thread. I just want to know how to plan it well ahead of time.

Seed a new field down every year so I can take one out every year? Seed it all at once? Take it out in rotation?

What do you guys that grow hay do? Just looking for some thoughts on rotating in and out of hay?

[newguy]

I hope to get into the hay business more as it fits my farm model better. I hate being short feed, and so the plan is the years where I have lots of excess, I would sell. I know the risks of hay buyers and bla bla bla, I don’t want to go there in this thread. I just want to know how to plan it well ahead of time.

Seed a new field down every year so I can take one out every year? Seed it all at once? Take it out in rotation?

What do you guys that grow hay do? Just looking for some thoughts on rotating in and out of hay?

Usually seed a a mix tap root alfalfa and smooth and meadow brome.Alfalfa comes the first few years then brome takes over .then after 8 to 10 years spray out and start over again.Or fence and rotational graze to lengthen rotation.I always like to cultivate field as soon as frost out and you can get on field then seed to grass.the earlier seeded means you get a bigger chance of getting a cool wet spell to get grass started.usually a barley or oat cover crop seeded at low rates.If you wait later a burn off before you seed is possible but when you choose to seed in April the cultivator helps make a cleaner start for the grass.

[Taiga]

I do half hay and half grain. 5-6 years alfalfa and then two years grain, repeat. No production first year seeding here. Smooth brome is weed here and comes in on its own and provides some grass content. I used to seed alfalfa/timothy and then dropped the timothy, but will be adding it back in going forward. I buy 4000-5000lbs of alfalfa seed every year. If you can feed your own poor hay/bales then that cuts the waste.

[Taiga]

No gophers in the Peace thankfully, what a mess they make.

[Sheepwheat]

Thanks for the ideas! Taiga, do you even need to put on any N in the grain crop years? Because I have land that if I leave an nh3 test strip, you can’t see a bit of difference. Always only in the land that was in hay.

I seed alfalfa with orchard grass and Timothy. Orchard grass is extremely palatable and with moisture an awesome grass.

[Taiga]

Yes I still soil test and find I need approx 100lbs/Ac of 46-0-0 at seeding each spring.

[woodland]

Sheepwheat……. We generally plant AC Grazeland alfalfa in a blend of whichever grass you’d like with it. Usually Timothy, orchardgrass, or brome for us. Works great as it’s low risk for bloating for grazing and still produces good tonnage for baling. If the pasture gets ahead of your critters bale it up and graze the second cut. If it’s just a dedicated hay field there is some really good multi-foliate alfalfa out there

Only problem with selling your excess is that everyone in the area will be in the same boat and the prices will reflect that. I’ve got a handful of long term customers that are great. They are willing to pay better than average prices with the understanding I will supply them with something. The last few years they’ve been pretty forgiving on quality as it’s been more than challenging to make pretty hay. The price in the winter here was down to about 4cents/lb and I can’t really grow it for that. Almost bought a bunch of bales but still sitting on a pile of silage from 2016 yet so never did.

Rotate out in 5-8 years with a no till disk drill to canola or such to clean up the field and start over.

There’s not too much more satisfying than rolling up a field of beautiful green bales that you already have a home for.

Good luck🍀

[WiltonRanch]

It is a great practice to keep your hay new. Leaving it too long here results in a no profit rough mess. Remember Les Henry in his book saying if you want maximum benefit from alfalfa is to terminate after 3 years. My plan going forward is to terminate some past due pasture stands and graze new stands after haying it a year or 2. Think once I rejuvenate the 4 quarters over a period of time I will then have one of the quarters in that block in crop, one in hay, and remaining 4 pasture. Like Taiga smooth brome is wild here so grass I seed with the alfalfa is hb brome and Timothy. I even throw a few # of sweetclover in for I don’t know. New grass/alfalfa stands drought a lot better. Nice thing with keeping stuff new also allows you to fertilize the crop with lots of p k and s in the ground rather than spreading on top which isn’t as efficient. I’ve tried broadcasting fertilizer on old stands at different rates to see if there is a response. If it is too far gone it doesn’t do much.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Sheepwheat……. We generally plant AC Grazeland alfalfa in a blend of whichever grass you’d like with it. Usually Timothy, orchardgrass, or brome for us. Works great as it’s low risk for bloating for grazing and still produces good tonnage for baling. If the pasture gets ahead of your critters bale it up and graze the second cut. If it’s just a dedicated hay field there is some really good multi-foliate alfalfa out there

Only problem with selling your excess is that everyone in the area will be in the same boat and the prices will reflect that. I’ve got a handful of long term customers that are great. They are willing to pay better than average prices with the understanding I will supply them with something. The last few years they’ve been pretty forgiving on quality as it’s been more than challenging to make pretty hay. The price in the winter here was down to about 4cents/lb and I can’t really grow it for that. Almost bought a bunch of bales but still sitting on a pile of silage from 2016 yet so never did.

Rotate out in 5-8 years with a no till disk drill to canola or such to clean up the field and start over.

There’s not too much more satisfying than rolling up a field of beautiful green bales that you already have a home for.

Good luck🍀

And nothing less satisfying than cutting a beautiful green heavy lush hay crop with a good forecast, then watching it get rained on for weeks, raked and turned and fluffed multiple times, then baling up black/brown tough dusty moldy stems a month later.
Your results may vary...

As to the question about all at once, or a little at a time, we have had some horrible years for hay establishment, where the seed was a complete waste of money. I'd rather spread the risk around over the course of a few years.

Again, your results may vary, we get chinooks that melt the snow, spring can come 3 months earlier one year than the next etc. Your conditions sound more consistent.

Orchard grass is the best thing ever on a dry year, it regrows very fast, even when alfalfa is out of water, it adds lots of tons.

It is the worst idea ever on a wet year, it never dries, regrows through the swath in days, never dries, and did I mention that it never dries.

[newguy]

Thanks for the ideas! Taiga, do you even need to put on any N in the grain crop years? Because I have land that if I leave an nh3 test strip, you can’t see a bit of difference. Always only in the land that was in hay.

I seed alfalfa with orchard grass and Timothy. Orchard grass is extremely palatable and with moisture an awesome grass.

After grass there is a huge amount of nitrogen tied up in organic matter.you need to add nitrogen to accelerate the break down of that organic matter.

[WiltonRanch]

After grass there is a huge amount of nitrogen tied up in organic matter.you need to add nitrogen to accelerate the break down of that organic matter.

I never back off on fertilizer but I’m not a big user to start with. Figure what is gained by leaving in perennial stand is better preserved if you keep fertility up. Hay depletes pks quite a lot.

[shtferbrains]

Very tough to make first cut hay that has any value here. Hard to get it off the field in time to make decent second cut.
If you could make silage chopped or wrapped in late June early july here you have much better results with 2nd cut as it doesn't weather as bad later in the year.
The real money is in straight alfalfa with high RFV to the saskatoon dairies or sometimes local Hutt dairies.
No dairies left here but they will alwsys buy premium alfafa. Has to be clean green and fine stem leafy. If you can supply RFV data more money if GOOD. Hard to make good.
Make sure you start with lot of sulfer if rotating alfalfa.

[dmlfarmer]

never tried it personally but have seen good results of underseeding straight alfalfa in clearfield canola. You get a cash crop in year of establishment, good weed control with pursuit or odessey, and canola stubble protects the alfalfa over that first winter.

[GDR]

It is the worst idea ever on a wet year, it never dries, regrows through the swath in days, never dries, and did I mention that it never dries.

Frick I hate Orchard grass, quit seeding it cause it's just a challenge to harvest. As for Sheepwheats suggestion that its palatable, I disagree with that also. Makes a bale look very nice for sure but it tends to be a bit scratchy and they will waste what looks like nice grass. Grazing it is the last thing the animals will eat. I prefer heavy alfalfa with a bit of Timothy and Hybrid Brome.

Sounds like forage may be a longterm solution for Sheepwheat but I live in a big hay area, I watch guys switch back to grain or hay chasing high prices but by the time its becomes established or broken up the market has gone the opposite direction. It's a really feast or famine business growing hay. Find your path and stick to it.

I also try to find later maturing Timothy. If you cut your first cut based on the alfalfa and the Timothy hasnt flowered yet it will regrow for second cut, otherwise not much fall growth.

Otherwise everyone's comments sound spot on!

[WiltonRanch]

I’ve often thought of using an annual in the grazing regime as generally they can be established and grazed or cut in the same year then put to crop the following year. When it’s really dry something like rye is a good bet as long as tetany or prussic acid don’t get you. Lots of cover blends for sale for that purpose but rye is cheap and tough. It would be nice to have a legume in there for n fixation and another non cereal to increase diversity and resilience but cost vs benefit you know. My herd is a lot smaller than years prior as I seen writing was on the wall for having a large herd and hauling all over hell to pasture. If you can’t make them pay utilizing and improving the health of your poor land, and complimenting your grain operation I definitely can’t see how one can do well on them as a stand alone commercial cow/calf enterprise in the future. Outside of areas purely suited for ranching and mixed ones like mine cattle don’t make sense anymore.