Behind the Rise of U.S. Solar Power, a Mountain of Chinese Coal

[TOM4CWB]

The Wall Street Journal
By Matthew Dalton
July 31, 2021 8:32 am ET

Solar panel installations are surging in the U.S. and Europe as Western countries seek to cut their reliance on fossil fuels.

But the West faces a conundrum as it installs panels on small rooftops and in sprawling desert arrays: Most of them are produced with energy from carbon-dioxide-belching, coal-burning plants in China.

Concerns are mounting in the U.S. and Europe that the solar industry’s reliance on Chinese coal will create a big increase in emissions in the coming years as manufacturers rapidly scale up production of solar panels to meet demand. That would make the solar industry one of the world’s most prolific polluters, analysts say, undermining some of the emissions reductions achieved from widespread adoption.

For years, China’s low-cost, coal-fired electricity has given the country’s solar-panel manufacturers a competitive advantage, allowing them to dominate global markets.

Chinese factories supply more than three-quarters of the world’s polysilicon, an essential component in most solar panels, according to industry analyst Johannes Bernreuter. Polysilicon factories refine silicon metal using a process that consumes large amounts of electricity, making access to cheap power a cost advantage. Chinese authorities have built an array of coal-burning power plants in sparsely populated areas such as Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia to support polysilicon manufacturers and other energy-hungry industries.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/behind-the-rise-of-u-s-solar-power-a-mountain-of-chinese-coal-11627734770?mod=trending_now_pos3

We are so Vain... Cheers

[chuckChuck]

And solar panels are the only thing that uses cheap and dirty coal in large quantities? Not a chance.

There is a long list of manufactured goods that are produced in China and consumed around the world. Should we stop buying all the Chinese products made from dirty coal?

Should we abandon efforts to build cleaner electricity sources to reduce carbon emissions? No.

What we need to do is provide incentives for China to cleanup their electricity sources with carbon tarrifs on imports so that we reward manufacturers who have the lowest carbon emissions per unit.

That has the potential to move manufacturing to regions with plentiful low cost renewable cleaner energy supplies like Quebec, Manitoba, and Australia , and the US Southwest among others.

For those who live in Alberta to point the finger at China for large carbon emissions, take a look at your own backyard, where emissions from the oil sands are one of the largest fastest growing sources of emissions in Canada.

If you are suggesting we shut down productionfrom high emission energy sources, then the energy intensive Alberta oil sands would be one of the first on the list. Because many other oil producing regions have a big advantage with lower emissions per unit.

https://www.pembina.org/pub/oilsands-carbon-constrained-canada

Studies reviewed for this report consistently find oilsands products to be more carbon intensive than lighter, conventional oil sources. Recognizing limitations of emissions intensity research and the challenge of comparing studies, the best estimate currently available suggests a barrel of oil produced in Canada is associated on average with 70% more GHG emissions than the average crude produced globally.
Acknowledging oil demand will not disappear overnight, most outlooks predict demand will plateau or decline within the next decade. Subsequent global shifts toward lower-intensity energy options are likely to put more carbon-intense crudes — such as the bulk of oilsands products — at risk over the next decade.

[blackpowder]

What we need to do is provide incentives for China to cleanup their electricity sources with carbon tarrifs on imports so that we reward manufacturers who have the lowest carbon emissions per unit.

That has the potential to move manufacturing to regions with plentiful low cost renewable cleaner energy supplies like Quebec, Manitoba, and Australia , and the US Southwest among others.


You are so vain.

[Rareearth]

Bullshit Chuck
“What we need to do is provide incentives for China to cleanup their electricity sources with carbon tarrifs on imports so that we reward manufacturers who have the lowest carbon emissions per unit.

That has the potential to move manufacturing to regions with plentiful low cost renewable cleaner energy supplies like Quebec, Manitoba, and Australia , and the US Southwest among others.”

Subsidize China’s already subsidized energy production, wow, that would grow reliance on china in no way decentralizing it.

The only real solution to pollution and energy is modular nuclear! Only down side is transmission- distribution (power lines) which needs modernization, and redundancy to be built in anyway.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

What we need to do is provide incentives for China to cleanup their electricity sources with carbon tarrifs on imports so that we reward manufacturers who have the lowest carbon emissions per unit.

That has the potential to move manufacturing to regions with plentiful low cost renewable cleaner energy supplies like Quebec, Manitoba, and Australia , and the US Southwest among others.


You are so vain.

And he has no clue about what that would do to the cost of solar components.

Already non competitive in any market that isn't isolated off the gridor an island.

Then to add the true cost of the environmental destruction and CO2 taxes on the energy required to create them would be the nail in the coffin. Then add all the taxes, quality standards, labour regulations etc. that would result from moving the production on shore. Think California, Germany, Australia etc. have expensive electricity now?

Yet the useful idiot is supporting this.

Clueless.

[burnt]

Bullshit Chuck
“What we need to do is provide incentives for China to cleanup their electricity sources with carbon tarrifs on imports so that we reward manufacturers who have the lowest carbon emissions per unit.

That has the potential to move manufacturing to regions with plentiful low cost renewable cleaner energy supplies like Quebec, Manitoba, and Australia , and the US Southwest among others.”

Subsidize China’s already subsidized energy production, wow, that would grow reliance on china in no way decentralizing it.

The only real solution to pollution and energy is modular nuclear! Only down side is transmission- distribution (power lines) which needs modernization, and redundancy to be built in anyway.

Rareearth, do you have knowledge of thorium-fueled reactors and why they are not given much consideration, if any?

From what I've read, they seem like a much lower risk, more flexible and overallfriendlier power generation option than uranium.

[Rareearth]

I don't know anything about the thorium-fueled reactors. Can you elaborate with coles notes please.

Saskatchewan is world class uranium opportunity, along with other mineral, nutrient, gas, etc opportunities time and technology will quickly develop these products

[chuckChuck]

And he has no clue about what that would do to the cost of solar components.

Already non competitive in any market that isn't isolated off the gridor an island.

Then to add the true cost of the environmental destruction and CO2 taxes on the energy required to create them would be the nail in the coffin. Then add all the taxes, quality standards, labour regulations etc. that would result from moving the production on shore. Think California, Germany, Australia etc. have expensive electricity now?

Yet the useful idiot is supporting this.

Clueless.

Then show us your numbers to backup your sweeping broad generalizations again! A5 you still haven't learned your lesson yet?

So what would a carbon tarrif on solar panels add to the cost of chinese panels vs the panels made in the USA, Japan, or South Korea? Do you have any idea or are you just making up shit again? By the way they are not all made in China. See the list below.

Solar is generating some of the lowest cost electrcity in the world. And generation costs are only a portion of the cost of delivering electricity to consumers.

So where are your case studies that shows that it is only renewable sources that causing high prices in all the regions listed?

Because frankly Alberta arm chair experts who routinely dismiss climate change and the necessity of cutting carbon emissions have zero influence when it comes to governments or utilities making decisions about how to reduce emissions and provide a stable and adequate supply of clean electricity.

[furrowtickler]

Solar is free and will save the planet and has zero environmental impact.

[jazz]

Solar is free and will save the planet and has zero environmental impact.

And needs thousands of miles of new transmission line right up to your house that will never be built. Oil will still be here in a big way 100 yrs from now. There are over 4B people on this planet who have never known air conditioning before or modern home appliances before or even owned a car.

yeah some panels are turbines are really going to make a dent in that demand.

There at some point will be a full out abandonment of this green scam just like Germany realized 10 yrs too late. All will be reversed, nuclear will be fast tracked (but still take 10 yrs to permit and build) and oil will step in again for the survival of the foolish.

[furrowtickler]

I am not against the idea , or that it does help slightly overall with demand , I just shake my head at the 100% environmental and free propaganda slant
You want to talk misinformation.... that is beyond comprehension to anyone who can think for more that 2 minutes

[chuckChuck]

And needs thousands of miles of new transmission line right up to your house that will never be built. Oil will still be here in a big way 100 yrs from now. There are over 4B people on this planet who have never known air conditioning before or modern home appliances before or even owned a car.

yeah some panels are turbines are really going to make a dent in that demand.

There at some point will be a full out abandonment of this green scam just like Germany realized 10 yrs too late. All will be reversed, nuclear will be fast tracked (but still take 10 yrs to permit and build) and oil will step in again for the survival of the foolish.

And Trump was going to win the election and covid would be gone right after! Your predictions and analysis are always right on.

[burnt]

I don't know anything about the thorium-fueled reactors. Can you elaborate with coles notes please.

Saskatchewan is world class uranium opportunity, along with other mineral, nutrient, gas, etc opportunities time and technology will quickly develop these products

I really was hoping someone who understands the language would step up - chemistry baffles me.

Thorium is a radioactive chemical element found all over the globe in greater quantities than uranium. From what I gather, it is difficult to produce it economically thus far. That may be partially why it's role in energy production hasn't had more development.

However, when used as a nuclear fuel, it does not produce nearly the same numbers or volumes of hazardous waste, making it a far safer fuel source than uranium.

Suitable for most types of nuke reactors, it is particularly well suited to Molten Salt Reactors. In my limited understanding, it seems like thorium, being non-fissile, can use normal, radioactive nuclear waste to start the reactive process.

It's byproducts/waste cannot be used to create nuclear weapons.

IIRC, the latter point is why the energy complex went with uranium for making nuclear energy or thorium. If that is correct, the decision was made in a "complicated" manner by interests outside of the energy complex...

Please pardon my less-than-rudimentary knowledge and explanation, but hopefully it at least provides a bit of insight.

Really looking for someone who can speak knowledgeably to this.

[jazz]

Here is the full accounting a green boondoggle thanks to the idiot detached from reality environmental crowd.

A project that was projected at $2B has ballooned to $12B and doubled power prices and made the province of just a million people ready to declare insolvency.

Oh please chuck why dont you defend it. Any cbc articles at the ready?

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/np-view-liberals-ensure-the-muskrat-falls-boondoggle-is-everyones-burden

Now project a few dozen of these onto the country and poof, bye bye Canadian economy.

[shtferbrains]

Solar is free and will save the planet and has zero environmental impact.

https://hbr.org/2021/06/the-dark-side-of-solar-power
Be nice if this was hot linked as it details some of the issues coming to light as solar is more widely addopted.
The reason for the rapid expasion is not so much cheap power but the 26% tax credit that is scheduled to end encouraging a huge flood of investors.
California has some of the fastest rising energy prices and routinly can't provide power when the people die of heat that they are trying to prevent.