A climate success story: How Alberta got off coal power

[Hamloc]

Try to disassociate what may apply to a unique early adopter position;.......as compared to what the rest of a province customers need and can afford. That challenge is fair because it comes at expense of all others.

Even take a look at the current rules of no SaskPower subsidy and 2 KW electricity injected entitles 1Kw returned within the next three years.

Please get back to us on your newly recalculated payout period; and the economics of the generated power being effectively half what it is now worth to every generator who may wish to replicate early adopter's experiences; but will find that the rules have been necessarily changed.

In summary; how does it feel to have your hand in everyone else's pocket?

If I understand you correctly Oneoff SaskPower no longer subsidizes solar installations and only pays you half for the power generated? Certainly would change the economics of on farm solar generation, I don’t think you would break even in the theoretical life span of 25 years for solar panels.

As for Chuck2 he has clearly stated in the past he has no problem with solar power subsidies, he would encourage it and would condemn Saskpower’s new policy.

[chuckChuck]

https://www.aeso.ca/assets/Uploads/AESO-Dispatchable-Renewables-Storage-Report-May2018.pdf https://www.aeso.ca/assets/Uploads/AESO-Dispatchable-Renewables-Storage-Report-May2018.pdf

Dispatchable Renewables and Energy Storage AESO

1.4 Assessing renewables integration requirementsThe AESO performed a comprehensive reliability and flexibility analysis to determine the impact of integrating 30 per cent intermittent renewable into the power system by 2030. This included conducting power system and market studies based on the AESO 2017 Long-term Transmission Plan (LTP) and the AESO 2017 Long-term Outlook (LTO), respectively. Two market simulation scenarios were studied to assess the future variability on the system as more intermittent renewables are integrated: a Moderate Coal-to-gas Conversion (2018−MCTG) scenario with 2,400 MW of existing coal converted to gas, and a High Coal-to-gas Conversion (2018−HCTG) scenario with 5,300 MW of existing coal converted to gas. The scenarios were modified from the LTO to incorporate higher wind generation, replacing some hydro and solar. Various power system studies were performed to assess overall transmission reliability, including system adequacy, voltage and system stability, and system inertia. The results confirmed that there were no material challenges forecast. Current transmission development plans identified in the LTPwill enable integration of the forecast level of renewables.

[Hamloc]

Interesting to note I must have been writing a response to Oneoff at the same time Chuck2 was typing and what a surprise in “typical Liberal fashion” his response wasn’t even related to what Oneoff pointed out, apparently Trudeau disease must be contagious on the left of center. Trudeau disease definition: inability to answer a direct question or respond to a question with a response that shows you understood the question.

[chuckChuck]

https://www.pembina.org/reports/renewable-energy--what-you-need-to-know.pdf https://www.pembina.org/reports/renewable-energy--what-you-need-to-know.pdf

Renewable energy — what you need to know


"What does renewable energy mean for utility bills?
In Alberta’s deregulated market, the system operator chooses electricity from the lowest-bidding power producers first, working its way up to more expensive bidders until demand is met. The most expensive generator chosen sets the hourly price at which all selected producers are paid. As renewable have no fuel costs, their producers bid at $0/MWh, and are selected first. Therefore, adding more renewables has the effect of drawing down electricity prices (Figure 5)"

[chuckChuck]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-020-00695-4.epdf?sharing_token=4x0WoihtczizVbdTskgqPdRgN0jAj Wel9jnR3ZoTv0PKZskfNBvMm-4XFLE8lcn7vrdafttMwBs8prsl7zfeuMZZIi1u_0B0EQTqOIu8 fmmj1nRjwab02qZSEoi7NuzucdvENjM7JjGGFcIO2tJXp9Heop QoJz5pUquG--_UlRg%3D https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-020-00695-4.epdf?sharing_token=4x0WoihtczizVbdTskgqPdRgN0jAj Wel9jnR3ZoTv0PKZskfNBvMm-4XFLE8lcn7vrdafttMwBs8prsl7zfeuMZZIi1u_0B0EQTqOIu8 fmmj1nRjwab02qZSEoi7NuzucdvENjM7JjGGFcIO2tJXp9Heop QoJz5pUquG--_UlRg%3D

A systematic review of the costs and impacts of integrating variable renewables into power grids Philip J. Heptonstalland Robert J. K. Gross

The impact of variable renewable energy (VRE) sources on an electricity system depends on technological characteristics, demand, regulatory practices and renewable resources. The costs of integrating wind or solar power into electricity networks have been debated for decades yet remain controversial and often misunderstood. Here we undertake a systematic review of the international evidence on the cost and impact of integrating wind and solar to provide policymakers with evidence to inform strategic choices about which technologies to support. We find a wide range of costs across the literature that depend largely on the price and availability of flexible system operation. Costs are small at low penetrations of VRE and can even be negative. Data are scarce at high penetrations, but show that the range widens. Nonetheless, VRE sources can be a key part of a least-cost route to decarbonization.

[Hamloc]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-020-00695-4.epdf?sharing_token=4x0WoihtczizVbdTskgqPdRgN0jAj Wel9jnR3ZoTv0PKZskfNBvMm-4XFLE8lcn7vrdafttMwBs8prsl7zfeuMZZIi1u_0B0EQTqOIu8 fmmj1nRjwab02qZSEoi7NuzucdvENjM7JjGGFcIO2tJXp9Heop QoJz5pUquG--_UlRg%3D https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-020-00695-4.epdf?sharing_token=4x0WoihtczizVbdTskgqPdRgN0jAj Wel9jnR3ZoTv0PKZskfNBvMm-4XFLE8lcn7vrdafttMwBs8prsl7zfeuMZZIi1u_0B0EQTqOIu8 fmmj1nRjwab02qZSEoi7NuzucdvENjM7JjGGFcIO2tJXp9Heop QoJz5pUquG--_UlRg%3D

A systematic review of the costs and impacts of integrating variable renewables into power grids Philip J. Heptonstalland Robert J. K. Gross

The impact of variable renewable energy (VRE) sources on an electricity system depends on technological characteristics, demand, regulatory practices and renewable resources. The costs of integrating wind or solar power into electricity networks have been debated for decades yet remain controversial and often misunderstood. Here we undertake a systematic review of the international evidence on the cost and impact of integrating wind and solar to provide policymakers with evidence to inform strategic choices about which technologies to support. We find a wide range of costs across the literature that depend largely on the price and availability of flexible system operation. Costs are small at low penetrations of VRE and can even be negative. Data are scarce at high penetrations, but show that the range widens. Nonetheless, VRE sources can be a key part of a least-cost route to decarbonization.

Chuck2 how do all your cut and paste’s(which I didn’t read lol) respond to Oneoff’s post that SaskPower no longer subsidizes solar installations and the payment for generated power has been reduced(if I understand his post correctly)?

[oneoff]

Chuck2 how do all your cut and paste’s(which I didn’t read lol) respond to Oneoff’s post that SaskPower no longer subsidizes solar installations and the payment for generated power has been reduced(if I understand his post correctly)?

I firmly stand by my post. There is no electrical utility subsidy...and hasn't been for any renewable nor carbon neutral flare gas generation projects applied for in the past year (and probably not ever into the future).

And while previous to Nov/2019 projects have a contract period of one for one Kwh exchange as long as same electrical meter installation remains current and in same customers name (I believe; but will check if anyone disputes that statement)

Too bad that all those Net Metering solar project owners wouldn't come clean concerning what the economics and performance actually is under different scenarios.
One of the expectations of those subsidy programs was that this experiment would provide information to the utility as well as in general term to evaluate the benefits and pitfalls of alternate electrical generation for the public good..

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Too bad that all those Net Metering solar project owners wouldn't come clean concerning what the economics and performance actually is under different scenarios.
One of the expectations of those subsidy programs was that this experiment would provide information to the utility as well as in general term to evaluate the benefits and pitfalls of alternate electrical generation for the public good..

And the fact that those generously unfavourable conditions have been scaled back or removed altogether says all you need to know about what has been learned about the pitfalls of alternate generation for the public good. ( as opposed to the good of the individual on the recieving end).

[oneoff]

Beware the distraction of references to megawatt solar farms and wind farms when personal experience of posters involves projects that are satisfied to only strive to reduce electrical bills of single farms and/or even a residence .

Net Metering projects are orders of magnitude smaller. Dare I say.... to the level of insignificance.

As in 10's of potential mega watts compared to Kilowatts counted on fingers and toes of farmers who are showing a bit of wear and tear.

[chuckChuck]

The solar program I signed on to was available to anyone who wanted it at the time.

Just like farmers, my self included, who receive a matching deposit subsidy into their AgriInvest account from the Federal government every year, I took advantage of the program. If you don't want to take advantage of either program, that is your choice.

There is an old adage that applies: You snooze you loose.

It is a bit more than hypocritical that farmers who have received government subsidies and support programs paid for by taxpayers over their career back as far as the 1970s,1980s to present, are now the ones who are complaining about development and support for renewable electricity generation systems.