A climate success story: How Alberta got off coal power

[Hamloc]

Never said we can function with out a hydro or fossil fuel system backup.

Intermittent renewables can however reduce carbon emissions and are now in many cases the cheapest generation sources even if they require backup.

https://www.irena.org/publications/2020/Jun/Renewable-Power-Costs-in-2019 https://www.irena.org/publications/2020/Jun/Renewable-Power-Costs-in-2019

Newly installed renewable power capacity increasingly costs less than the cheapest power generation options based on fossil fuels. The cost data presented in this comprehensive study from the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) confirms how decisively the tables have turned.

More than half of the renewable capacity added in 2019 achieved lower electricity costs than new coal. New solar and wind projects are undercutting the cheapest of existing coal-fired plants, the report finds. Auction results show these favourable cost trends for renewables accelerating.

How did the UK hit a record 47% of its electricity from renewables in the first quarter of 2020 if wind and solar don't work? They have obviously found a way to make them work at a high level.

Renewables are being deployed at increasing rates in many countries which speaks for itself.

With a little research Chuck the U.K has 4 sources of renewable energy, wind, solar, biomass and of course hydro. The 47% was achieved by wind alone but a combination of all 4. The U.K builds the majority of it’s wind farms off shore which I believe gives them a more dependable resource. Having said that power produced off the U.K coast is certainly not proof that it will work here.


Chuck you always maintain no one is proposing that all our electricity come from solar and wind. Have you ever read press releases from Greenpeace or Stand Earth etc., they certainly believe that the technology exists today to eliminate all sources of power generation other than solar and wind and the sooner the better. They also believe all indoor heating should be done with electricity, which would be prohibitively expensive. So I whole heartedly disagree that no one is promoting these intermittent power sources to our federal government as the only solution.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

With a little research Chuck the U.K has 4 sources of renewable energy, wind, solar, biomass and of course hydro. The 47% was achieved by wind alone but a combination of all 4. The U.K builds the majority of it’s wind farms off shore which I believe gives them a more dependable resource. Having said that power produced off the U.K coast is certainly not proof that it will work here.


Chuck you always maintain no one is proposing that all our electricity come from solar and wind. Have you ever read press releases from Greenpeace or Stand Earth etc., they certainly believe that the technology exists today to eliminate all sources of power generation other than solar and wind and the sooner the better. They also believe all indoor heating should be done with electricity, which would be prohibitively expensive. So I whole heartedly disagree that no one is promoting these intermittent power sources to our federal government as the only solution.

Included in that 47% is all of the wood chips sent from Canada and US. And don't forget about the plan to switch all transportation over to electricity. Chuck must not get invited to the meetings any more, he seems very out of touch.
And no, the wind doesn't work there either, as evidenced by the recent black outs.

And during their recent "wind week" where the wind forgot to blow, and coal took over:

[jazz]

AF thank you for your service. By continuing to engage an obtuse troll, you just let him stumble over himself every day.

So now he readily admits the entire renewable complex will need to have FF back up permanently.

So exactly how will solar and wind become cost competitive when we need to have 2 systems in place with one providing 100% backup to the other? All while subsidizing one source and penalizing the other?

Lets take that argument to its logical conclusion. It will take a doubling of Canadas electric capacity to power everything they plan to. Assume thats from solar and wind because no hydro dams or nukes will ever be built again, none are in even on the drawing board and need 10 yrs min to permit. That says nothing about the grid that needs to be expanded and beefed up. Who is going to let all those high lines across their land?

So to back that up we will have to increase our FF capacity to compensate for it? That means expanding that capacity as well to keep pace. God forbid we get a solar flare or something.

Like seriously how does a person like that function in the world?

[Guest]

This wood chip thing just blows my mind
That is the stupidest thing these climatards have ever come up with
Absolute lunacy ???
I mean , cut billions of trees down with faller bunchers , running on diesel , process them at great expense, haul them with trucks to port with diesel , then haul them across the ocean with diesel ?
What wrong with these idiots ?
Surely to Christ , I am missing something ?
And don’t trees help with the imaginary problem ?
I just don’t understand?

[Guest]

AF thank you for your service. By continuing to engage an obtuse troll, you just let him stumble over himself every day.

So now he readily admits the entire renewable complex will need to have FF back up permanently.

So exactly how will solar and wind become cost competitive when we need to have 2 systems in place with one providing 100% backup to the other? All while subsidizing one source and penalizing the other?

Lets take that argument to its logical conclusion. It will take a doubling of Canadas electric capacity to power everything they plan to. Assume thats from solar and wind because no hydro dams or nukes will ever be built again, none are in even on the drawing board and need 10 yrs min to permit. That says nothing about the grid that needs to be expanded and beefed up. Who is going to let all those high lines across their land?

So to back that up we will have to increase our FF capacity to compensate for it? That means expanding
that capacity as well to keep pace. God forbid we get a solar flare or something.

Like seriously how does a person like that function in the world?

Umm , seriously , have you looked around lately ???
Common sense , critical thinking , these things aren’t very common any more

[biglentil]

Saskatchewan is arguably the most endowed energy districts on the planet. The uranium grades in Northern Saskatchewan are second to none by a factor of 100. The world average uranium mine grade is 0.10%. For example look at the latest Sask uranium discovery by ISO Energy listed on the TSXV. They recently drilled a hole grading 74% U308 over 3.5m. Every cubic meter of ore has a value of approximately $500k usd at the current $30/lb U308 price. That one cubic meter of ore has the equivalent energy density as 2.5 million barrels of oil. Needless to say I'm bullish on Uranium and ISO.V.

[Guest]

if only there was a way to turn that uranium into electricity ?

[jazz]

Surely to Christ , I am missing something ?

You are missing something. The target is capitalism, not climate.

Some people are wed to a 3 layer fantasy, climate change to renewable energy to socialist utopia.

Its just incrementalism from the left like see time and time again.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Good and bad news today. I see a chinook arch building to the west, so wind must be blowing somewhere bringing warm air in, wind power stats impressive today.
Solar, keeps getting worse. Brooks 7 days capacity factor now down to 0.9%.

The winter pattern here in AB seems to be big wind production sporadically when it warms up(Chinook winds) and very low to non existent when it gets cold. Exactly opposite to demand on the grid. And solar in mid winter, insignificant, again, exactly opposite to demand.

[chuckChuck]

Blackspring Ridge (BSR1) is jointly owned by EDF Renewables Development and Enbridge. It is located north of Lethbridge in Carmangay, Alberta. This asset has the highest Maximum Capability for a wind plant in Alberta (300 MW). It consists of 166 wind turbines. It was added as an AESO asset in 2015. It is owned by Enbridge and EDF Renewables Development.

[chuckChuck]

Blackspring Ridge (BSR1) is jointly owned by EDF Renewables Development and Enbridge. It is located north of Lethbridge in Carmangay, Alberta. This asset has the highest Maximum Capability for a wind plant in Alberta (300 MW). It consists of 166 wind turbines. It was added as an AESO asset in 2015. It is owned by Enbridge and EDF Renewables Development.

Last 30 days.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Meanwhile back in Brooks:
I am trying to understand the purpose of your two posts. If you were trying to disprove my observation that wind power is completely out of phase with temperature, and therefore demand in the winter in AB, perhaps you could overlay that graph with a temperature graph.
It is noteworthy that you failed to post the graph for the 30 day production at Blackrock. I checked it, and I counted 16 spikes in one month from essentially zero to essentially 100% in a matter of minutes to hours, and back again. And that is using your cherry picked month of December when its average production was far above its long term average( thanks to a very warm month with many Chinooks blowing through. Can you wrap your head around what happens when anything more than a small token amount of generation comes from such an unreliable and fast changing source? That is average of once every two days it spikes from nothing to everything and back again. Only half as bad as solar which does that everyday, except when it fails to spike such as this time of year as in the brooks example above.

No one denies that you can make electricity in large quantities when the wind blows or the sun shines. The questions are:
Is it useful at the times when it is produced? Or is it out of phase with actual demand?
Can it ever be a significant percentage of production without driving costs sky high?
Could it ever actually reduce CO2 emissions when the spinning hot reserve must be maintained while operating at its lowest efficiency 24/7? And can't use combined cycle gas, or nuclear etc as peaker plants.

You keep promising us that battery technology will solve the intermittency problem. So I keep checking the disptached contingency reserve(DCR) for wind power in Alberta, and it is still 0. When wind and solar are competitive on a level playing field, by having to bid including actual DCR, not just we will produce if the wind blows, if not, it is someone elses problem, then please come back and lets discuss what their costs are, and how useful they are.

[sumdumguy]

Just looked at this post title again and a thought just smacked me in the head. Yeh, Alberta got off coal power and passed the torch to BC, how brotherly of Alberta!

[AlbertaFarmer5]

For anyone not in south or western Alberta, to clarify why Chuck's posts above are cherry picked.
A big Chinook wind blew in last night. It warmed up 9 degrees from su down till the middle of the night. Wind power is firing on all cylinders, and demand is way down thanks to the heat.

[chuckChuck]

For anyone not in south or western Alberta, to clarify why Chuck's posts above are cherry picked.
A big Chinook wind blew in last night. It warmed up 9 degrees from su down till the middle of the night. Wind power is firing on all cylinders, and demand is way down thanks to the heat.

BSR1 is a 300mw wind farm.

BSR1 had the capacity factor of 37.6% for the last 2 years and 50.9% for the last 30 days.

Both are less cherry picked than A5s data showing very little production from solar in December and January when we all know solar production is at its lowest hours of usable sunlight and production.