More airline bailout talk

[TSIPP]

I remember desperately getting a job below minimum wage with no overtime, 400 hours a month and nowhere to spend it cause I was always working, the bank account looked pretty good.

Most years ranching I definitely don’t make minimum wage, income tax definitely doesn’t know me.

[tweety]

BTW what would 40 bucks an acre do for your farm for 5 years? ???

Raise your overall risk and decrease your net income as your expenses would go up $60 an acre or more as all the players take part in removing your very trade offensive subsidy.

It could be worse, the government could claw back the approx 370 million in tax cuts SK farmers get yearly. Maybe that is to come.

[furrowtickler]

So in between ag jobs I did a brief (horrid) stint at a shoe store. Not a recommended job. Anyway, the wage didn’t even cover my living expenses.

Should I have also wanted government support then or would that have made me a lazy, CERB wanting, leftist?

Just one point I would like to make . Selling shoes does not create wealth , farming does , wether it’s your cows , my grain , and organic farm whatever. Farming is a wealth creating industry that benifits a huge sector of the economy. So I kinda agree with bucket on his points that ya we should be supported or a huge part of the economy fails as well .

Airlines don’t create wealth , they simply transfer people around essentially. Plus they burn huge amounts of fossil fuels for no real purpose other than pleasure 80% of the time . Cargo air traffic would be the exception.

[wmoebis]

Just one point I would like to make . Selling shoes does not create wealth , farming does , wether it’s your cows , my grain , and organic farm whatever. Farming is a wealth creating industry that benifits a huge sector of the economy. So I kinda agree with bucket on his points that ya we should be supported or a huge part of the economy fails as well .

Airlines don’t create wealth , they simply transfer people around essentially. Plus they burn huge amounts of fossil fuels for no real purpose other than pleasure 80% of the time . Cargo air traffic would be the exception.

So are people okay with letting airlines and infrastructure go down?

Seemed the Feds were there for the shoe store and the airline staff but do we let them go now? What do we do with the employees? In AB we let feds look after oil employees and provincially helped out their corp offices. Maybe it is up to provinces to help out all corps that they drew to their provinces.

Is there a provincial responsibility when enticing companies to move head offices to our province when things go bad?

[Blaithin]

Just one point I would like to make . Selling shoes does not create wealth , farming does , wether it’s your cows , my grain , and organic farm whatever. Farming is a wealth creating industry that benifits a huge sector of the economy. So I kinda agree with bucket on his points that ya we should be supported or a huge part of the economy fails as well .

Airlines don’t create wealth , they simply transfer people around essentially. Plus they burn huge amounts of fossil fuels for no real purpose other than pleasure 80% of the time . Cargo air traffic would be the exception.

People working for a wage don’t care if they’re in a wealth supporting industry or not. They’re working any job they could get in most instances, because at some point they developed a skill set that helped them get that job or they enjoy that job.

The point being made was that workers within agriculture should all want the industry subsidized. Why should I as an ag employee want my employer subsidized, but I as a shoe salesperson don’t have that right? Shouldn’t I be able to support myself no matter what industry I work in? Ag has always supported me better than any other - because of my skill set.

If my ag employer or my shoe store employer were given subsidies I have little doubt that it would be actually trickle down to me in either case anyway. In which case it would just be something to help the company stay operating. Ag being the industry it is, even without subsidies I feel secure in my ag employment. Retail has not weathered the pandemic nearly as well.

Now as a landowner I could have more benefit from subsidies if I wanted to put myself in the governments hands like that. As an employee, a wage is what I want. Subsidies are fairly irrelevant.

[TASFarms]

Raise your overall risk and decrease your net income as your expenses would go up $60 an acre or more as all the players take part in removing your very trade offensive subsidy.

It could be worse, the government could claw back the approx 370 million in tax cuts SK farmers get yearly. Maybe that is to come.

What tax cuts did a farmer get. Don’t believe there is any

[burnt]

Maybe I'm way off base again, but following this discussion - a very good one, IMHO - brings this thought to mind:

Ag, mining, O&G, forestry and industry are all wealth-creating enterprises.

And those are the industries that seem to be coming under attack by both government and other stupid people -taxes upon taxes, over regulation, subject to protest shutdowns, embargoed by our own nationals.

Yet it's largely consumer and consumer oriented business that gets subsidized? As well as ideologically-driven stuff like wind and solar?

What is wrong here - has contemporary society become so fat, slovenly and useless that it doesn't recognize what is of value any more?

See how long the rest of the country lasts when the necessities are choked out of existence. Gonna be a bloody awful painful wake-up call.

[Blaithin]

Maybe I'm way off base again, but following this discussion - a very good one, IMHO - brings this thought to mind:

Ag, mining, O&G, forestry and industry are all wealth-creating enterprises.

And those are the industries that seem to be coming under attack by both government and other stupid people -taxes upon taxes, over regulation, subject to protest shutdowns, embargoed by our own nationals.

Yet it's largely consumer and consumer oriented business that gets subsidized? As well as ideologically-driven stuff like wind and solar?

What is wrong here - has contemporary society become so fat, slovenly and useless that it doesn't recognize what is of value any more?

See how long the rest of the country lasts when the necessities are choked out of existence. Gonna be a bloody awful painful wake-up call.

Exactly! I’d rather see the chokeholds loosened on restrictions than see subsidies implemented.

Who cares if retail or air or whoever needs floated, just let go of my metaphorical balls with all that paperwork and regulations and let me work.

[furrowtickler]

So are people okay with letting airlines and infrastructure go down?

Seemed the Feds were there for the shoe store and the airline staff but do we let them go now? What do we do with the employees? In AB we let feds look after oil employees and provincially helped out their corp offices. Maybe it is up to provinces to help out all corps that they drew to their provinces.

Is there a provincial responsibility when enticing companies to move head offices to our province when things go bad?

I know a pile of farms that went down after droughts and other unfavourable weather events ... we are told to just tighten our belts and quit whining. Maybe the airlines should buy insurance like we have to to try to survive tough times ? Just an idea

[furrowtickler]

People working for a wage don’t care if they’re in a wealth supporting industry or not. They’re working any job they could get in most instances, because at some point they developed a skill set that helped them get that job or they enjoy that job.

The point being made was that workers within agriculture should all want the industry subsidized. Why should I as an ag employee want my employer subsidized, but I as a shoe salesperson don’t have that right? Shouldn’t I be able to support myself no matter what industry I work in? Ag has always supported me better than any other - because of my skill set.

If my ag employer or my shoe store employer were given subsidies I have little doubt that it would be actually trickle down to me in either case anyway. In which case it would just be something to help the company stay operating. Ag being the industry it is, even without subsidies I feel secure in my ag employment. Retail has not weathered the pandemic nearly as well.

Now as a landowner I could have more benefit from subsidies if I wanted to put myself in the governments hands like that. As an employee, a wage is what I want. Subsidies are fairly irrelevant.

I get what your saying about being able to support yourself .... but reality is , maybe you have not been there yet on the farm , is many of us went through years where we lost money , even if there was some crop insurance. We did get by here by everyone having second jobs and we lived very tight for several years to get through. Been there ... it’s not fun . Been working a second job actually since I was 17 and still do at 49 to get by.
Yes a person “should” be able to support themselves with any job but it not reality and
That’s not the case in farming as you know

[LEP]

In the 90’s it was very tight. You get a good year and then 4 bad.

Anyway a guy from the Oil patch, where it was also pretty tight, said something about whiney rich farmers. I replied “So lots of farmers work the winter in the patch to get by, how many oil guys work days off for a farmer to get by?”

Crickets.

[SASKFARMER]

Here is a fact that most don't get. We are getting handed our lunch from countries like Russia and Ukraine. They can out produce us any day. Their regulations are non-existant and they have access to all our great inventions and seed tec. Order a boat of Liberty canola and sell the seed. it's easy with zero rules. Add a stupid carbon tax and boom.

But stupid farmers will say the market the market well its BS in 2021.

ITs time we all start realizing our sons and daughters will not farm if the feds don't wake up and start working with farmers.

[wmoebis]

Here is a fact that most don't get. We are getting handed our lunch from countries like Russia and Ukraine. They can out produce us any day. Their regulations are non-existant and they have access to all our great inventions and seed tec. Order a boat of Liberty canola and sell the seed. it's easy with zero rules. Add a stupid carbon tax and boom.

But stupid farmers will say the market the market well its BS in 2021.

ITs time we all start realizing our sons and daughters will not farm if the feds don't wake up and start working with farmers.

Not disagreeing just inquisitive!

Other than getting rid of CTax or at least exempting AG. What do you advocate ANY gov't should do? What areas do you want deregulated to be on level field?

[farmaholic]

Not disagreeing just inquisitive!

Other than getting rid of CTax or at least exempting AG. What do you advocate ANY gov't should do? What areas do you want deregulated to be on level field?

Land values have anything to do with profitability and viability?

Foreign capital has replaced or displaced young domestic farmers from owning land.

Oh they can farm it but may never own it, if that matters, to me it does.

Hard for under capitalized young farmers, even with help from their parents small family farm, to compete with foreign capital or even very large domestic farms or Hutterite Colonies that can absorb the over inflated land prices into large holdings.

[SASKFARMER]

The new seed act will kill ag.

We need info from the Grain companies what's actually happening for sales and who they are to plus price.

The info it's 2021 almost not 1928.

If the USA and others are up to subsidising farmers we pay the same for chem fert all based on USA prices. They get subsidy prices to go up we have to compete is it a level playing field No.

Equipment etc.

So yes We need help and if it's financial let this sink in Trudeau gave Billions to Actors and foreign students.

Lets put it simply if your a Bayer rep in Russia and you want to take a farmer to court for growing GMO seed your shot buried and life goes on. Same seed better soil and once they figure it out were done. Chemical made bought from China for pennies. Ag brings in Cash to a country. Canada lets go green and yellow and sing and have pride parades. Were done here.