Nature conservancy of Canada

[bucket]

That a management issue not an issue of principle. That can be corrected.

I have no problem with farmers receiving support for conservation. There is lots of support for ALUS.

In some European countries you don't get subsidies unless you follow the environmental rules. Its the carrot approach.

The problem is most guys are doing the same thing that NCC does but they receive no funding....

Like my example ....while NCC received money from the provincial government through the environment ministery to buy land and do their nonsense conservation....I am doing a better job and receive nothing....and a lot of ranchers are in the same boat...

[bucket]

That Is a management issue not an issue of principle. That can be corrected. There are lots of examples of private landowners badly managing pastures. Are you in favour of enforcing management rules on private land owners? NCC is just another private land owner with different objectives.

I have no problem with farmers receiving support for conservation. There is lots of support for ALUS.

In some European countries you don't get subsidies unless you follow the environmental rules. Its the carrot approach.

ALUS is a weston family initiative doing the same as NCC ...You realize the Westons stole billions in price fixing of bread.

Its like the WE charity nonsense....politicians support them for eventual backdoor repayment....

[chuckChuck]

I think the bigger problem is there is only tepid support for conservation amongst most farmers. In fact many are hostile.

Leaving conservation up to farmers with no rules and no support won’t work. The other option is for governments to take it over and do it themselves. But governments are not that interested if there is a political price to pay.

It’s important not to lump all conservation organizations and efforts together as all bad. Fix the ones that are not working well and start supporting farmers for conservation with rules and enforcement. What other options should we consider?

You are in favour of a significant conservation effort and designating conservation lands?

[Sheepwheat]

You hit on something there chuck in the first sentence that I think is pertinent. Not many farmers left that leave habitat, even a little bit, let alone a lot. I have several hundred acres of prime habitat. I don’t expect payment to leave it like it is, it is just how I feel about conservation. All I expect is some great meat every year, mushrooms, berries, hazelnuts etc.

I am going to be an island eventually, in a region that has been pushed flat at an increasing rate lately. I do think that land like that will have high value as a showcase of what the area used to look like...

Majority of farmers aren’t really strong habitat conservationists. Which is fine and dandy. Just please stop hassling me to hunt on my land! I didn’t leave the trees for the tree pushers to hunt on, that’s for certain.

[bucket]

I think the bigger problem is there is only tepid support for conservation amongst most farmers. In fact many are hostile.

Leaving conservation up to farmers with no rules and no support won’t work. The other option is for governments to take it over and do it themselves. But governments are not that interested if there is a political price to pay.

It’s important not to lump all conservation organizations and efforts together as all bad. Fix the ones that are not working well and start supporting farmers for conservation with rules and enforcement. What other options should we consider?

You are in favour of a significant conservation effort and designating conservation lands?

I am in favor of being the same as NCC for my efforts....

And I would be happy to be on a grading scale....if I am doing things right then I get paid ...if I am missing a couple of grading factors ....I get discounted until I fix it...

I am a conservationist....but on my terms ....but it's better for my cattle herd which in turn should be making me money....

you see where I am going with this?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

The problem with governments getting involved, is the inevitable policy creep.

We have a quarter with a creek, the county designated the portion around the creek as an environmental reserve before we bought it. That means no farming, no pasturing, no tree cutting, no improvements, no buildings, just let it grow into a fire hazard. The remainder of the property is very productive farmland. And that is fine, the creek requires protection. It is a reasonable compromise.
Now, a group of fisherman have a report out and are lobbying the county for more protection. One of their recommendations is to extend the policies of that environmental reserve out to almost 2 km. That would make this entire quarter worthless, another entire quarter of ours same( which is all high land), another rented quarter or two the same. And we have 4 more quarters right on the edge of that propsed reserve that with some more policy creep could find themselves in the same situation.

[bucket]

The problem with governments getting involved, is the inevitable policy creep.

We have a quarter with a creek, the county designated the portion around the creek as an environmental reserve before we bought it. That means no farming, no pasturing, no tree cutting, no improvements, no buildings, just let it grow into a fire hazard. The remainder of the property is very productive farmland. And that is fine, the creek requires protection. It is a reasonable compromise.
Now, a group of fisherman have a report out and are lobbying the county for more protection. One of their recommendations is to extend the policies of that environmental reserve out to almost 2 km. That would make this entire quarter worthless, another entire quarter of ours same( which is all high land), another rented quarter or two the same. And we have 4 more quarters right on the edge of that propsed reserve that with some more policy creep could find themselves in the same situation.

Yup I probably shouldn't graze to the creek but ducks unlimited dry the creek bed up and I like to graze it...if they want me to not graze it and fence it out ...well I need to be paid to stay out of the spring flood zone which is a substantial amount of acres. ...

[farmaholic]

I think there is a lag time between habitat destruction and wildlife population decline, but it is real.

Some species adapt and some can't.

[flea beetle]

That Is a management issue not an issue of principle. That can be corrected. There are lots of examples of private landowners badly managing pastures. Are you in favour of enforcing management rules on private land owners? NCC is just another private land owner with different objectives.

I have no problem with farmers receiving support for conservation. There is lots of support for ALUS.

In some European countries you don't get subsidies unless you follow the environmental rules. Its the carrot approach.

So is the police issue and BLM just a management issue and can be corrected?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I think there is a lag time between habitat destruction and wildlife population decline, but it is real.

Some species adapt and some can't.

And one man's habitat destruction is another animals new garden of eden.
If we travel west into the mountain parks, guaranteed to see more, far far more big game on the way past our own crop land than in the entire rest of the trip. Turns out there isn't much worth eating in a mature overgrown forest with no room for grass, but a canola crop is the height of luxury for a deer or moose.

The creek mentioned above, turns out the fish they are trying to protect were stocked there in the 30's. What's natural? Was that habitat destruction for some other species?