Weed resistance solutions

[tweety]

Ok, lets talk about something important - f_u_c_k the weather talk.

How are you going to farm when herbicides reach the point of serious agronomic and economic loss ? Do you really think tank mixing 35 year old chemistry to "delay" resistance is an answer? The exponential curves showing resistance should be an eye opener.

And no, there aren't new chemistries coming out. Will we be better off as production decreases and costs decrease (not buying chemical).

So what are you going to do?

[jazz]

So what are you going to do?

Weed seed smasher I guess. That's what the WP was recommending as they predict glyphosate ban in 5 yrs.

https://www.producer.com/2020/01/agriculture-contemplates-life-without-glyphosate/ Agriculture contemplates life without glyphosate

[bucket]

This is interesting ....thanks for bringing it up...

Have Kochia in a 40 acre field that was sprayed with 1 liter RUP and goldwing....followed by another 1 liter RUP and blackhawk 10 days later because that didn't work and then a couple passes of roundup in crop on the soybeans....

Didn't kill a ****ing kochia ..stunted it a bit.......chem rep said he had never seen anything like it...

[Guest]

Ok, lets talk about something important - f_u_c_k the weather talk.

How are you going to farm when herbicides reach the point of serious agronomic and economic loss ? Do you really think tank mixing 35 year old chemistry to "delay" resistance is an answer? The exponential curves showing resistance should be an eye opener.

And no, there aren't new chemistries coming out. Will we be better off as production decreases and costs decrease (not buying chemical).

So what are you going to do?

A very serious problem coming for sure
A real threat for young guys
It will make grain worth a lot more
Grain bin sales will plummet
Probably just as much net left in the end

[jazz]

I can live with glyphosate banned from in crop use. We do a lot of swathing now anyway. We dont seed any RR varieties of anything.

But not sure how that would affect the US because 1/3 of their cropped acres is RR soybeans and probably some corn as well.

[agstar77]

I have also found kochia resistant to R-up. HW was effective. Unfortunately with todays megafarms these weeds will spread.

[Herc]

Attended a weed resistance presentation couple years ago. Some producers overseas are up $100 to control weeds. And spraying 4-5 chemicals in 2-3 passes. We get to that point its all going back to cow food. Let the buffalo roam....

[Sheepwheat]

For me, I am fencing all my land eventually. Sheep grazing will be a huge benefit. Every fall I marvel at the free feed out there that I currently can’t take advantage of. Weed control AND cheap meat making grazing.

Along with the sheep, of course comes forage. Hay in the rotation is amazing on weeds. And then you have the grazing land, same thing. Annual crops grazed or cut for hay.

Right now I have some rye that should go er in the spring. I hope I can get the fence around it soon enough!

And finally, the mindset of a “messy” field must be challenged. Weeds are nature’s cover crop. We need to accept this. We need to not panic if there are some weeds, big deal. Perfectly clean land is not close to mimicking nature.

I know I am sounding organic almost, but it is true. This mindset I have come around to has been a long time coming. When you have stock, you sure start to think things through differently.

So personally, I have no fear whatsoever of weed resistance. Even without the livestock I was not concerned in the least, because there is always a way to get through something. You just need to think differently than we have since the advent of herbicide.

My motto after all is, think differently! Lol

[helmsdale]

I'm looking at kochia that is group 2,4,9, and possibly now 14 resistant.

This is an area that up until 10 years ago used to bre 50/50 cropped. There is still plenty of chemfallow going on, so it turns this area into a test tube for chemical resistance.

As far as the summerfallow front is concerned around here, many have gone back to steel, but there is going to be a wreck soon! Where most guys used to have narrow fields going north/south against the prevailing winds, they now have at the very least 1/4 sections split in half or the very worst, entire 1/4s and 1/2s as whole fields. If we get a dry, hot, windy year, its going to make the dirty 30s look tame.

A vigorous crop stand seems to keep kochia mostly at bay... It can usually get a foothold on headlands and blow ridges regardless, but as was the case in last yeears Mustard crop, I just threw it through the combine and brought it home to clean, and then I'll either burn or compost the seeds.

A full liter of roundup, combined with full rate goldwind/blackhawk no longer touches them. 2oz of dicamba, and 6oz of 2-4d combined with a liter of RU wont touch them either.Group 2s do nothing. Group 6s in-crop are still working for now, as are group 3s.

[jazz]

Attended a weed resistance presentation couple years ago. Some producers overseas are up $100 to control weeds. And spraying 4-5 chemicals in 2-3 passes. We get to that point its all going back to cow food. Let the buffalo roam....

I will go back to chemfallow and the shovels before I get to those types of costs. We get no recognition for no till efforts anyway. Do what you have to. They cant ban you from working your land unless you sign on to one of those sustainability pledges the EU asks for to buy canola.

[jazz]

You guys need to fight kochia with Liberty Gr 10. With the competition from the canola weed we have bred and that chemical there is no kochia problem anywhere around here anymore.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

On this topic, what is the accepted wisdom regarding herbicide rates, and developing resistance. I've heard compelling cases supporting both low rates, and high rates to delay resistance.

Personally, my policy is minimizing chemical use, planting competitive crops, a little later when they are able to compete, and not expecting zero tolerance for weeds. Most cereal acres don't get sprayed in crop, only preseed, no pre or post harvest( no such thing as post harvest in this part of the world).

[helmsdale]

You guys need to fight kochia with Liberty Gr 10. With the competition from the canola weed we have bred and that chemical there is no kochia problem anywhere around here anymore.

In summerfallow, my f.i.l. did a 1/4 with glufosinate full rate, and 15gal of water... it winged them, but they still set seed, which means the next gen is likely to be partially resistant.

A few guys have resorted to straight up dessication... that's not particularly cost effective!

[helmsdale]

On this topic, what is the accepted wisdom regarding herbicide rates, and developing resistance. I've heard compelling cases supporting both low rates, and high rates to delay resistance.

Not sure what "accepted" would be...

But in this neighborhood, low rates in chemfallow I think have hastened resistance. Probably in combination with advanced staging. It's kind of like the nash equilibrium. Guys that have spent the $$$ in their own fields have definitively kept resistance to a minimum, but all it takes is one plant to roll from the neighbors in a windstorm onto yours that is partially resistant, and now even your higher chem rates struggle to control it in subsequent years. It means that if resistance is inevitable, it's hardly worth spending the extra money to give solid doses since the neighbors will screw you anyway.

Agrologist I talked to with DOW said kochia essentially takes 3 generations to become truly resistant. Stragglers from each generation persist the following year gaining resistance from generation to generation. If for instance you spray as follows:

1st year: dicamba in crop
2nd year: 2 or 3 passes with dicamba mixed in for chemfallow
3rd year: dicamba in crop
4th year (chemfallow): pretty much guaranteed dicamba resistance

[seldomseen]

Diverse crop rotation and diverse range of chem's for as long as that works. So far Kochia is not up here in the NE as far as i know. I have never grown any glyf resistant crops so that option should still be available. Wild oats and cleavers are the ones that will cause problems here. If all else fails retirement.