Newfoundland Vote

[chuckChuck]

Citation please.

Or at least evidence.

Ore even a single example. I've been searching and have yet to find an example of wind and solar not being much more expensive in the end.

Can you define penetration, is that the same as supply, or a play on words?

Bloomberg New Energy Outlook 2019

https://about.bnef.com/new-energy-outlook/

Take it up with them.

They have the resources and capacity to do this kind of analysis and forecasts. Neither you or I have all the information or expertise to do this analysis.

[chuckChuck]

All your vast cut and paste skills cant counter the stat that was put up a few weeks ago that renweables cant even keep up with overall energy demand growth. Sure they are growing, but nowhere near the baseload FF we have.

They will remain fringe at around 10% of our energy mix for a long time and then supplanted by a real energy source likely hydrogen for transport because it can be extracted from our current FF reserves.

Heating will be primarily natural gas and its relatives.

Electric will be a mix of hydro and natural gas generation, nuclear in some areas, solar where it matter like in US SW.

Large scale solar and wind projects in uneconomical areas like most of Canada will be opposed and local rooftop panels for the virtuous will be common. Generating solar in Australia or the Sahara does little good for China or the northern hemisphere. It cant be transported or stored so its useless.

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Parts of central asia and western China have very good solar resources. Parts of North America also.
The southern prairies look good as well.

Bloomberg and the International Energy agency have more insights into what the present and future may look like. But your assertion that "renewables are dead" is just dead wrong!

That doesn't mean Canada will look like Arizona or Australia when it comes to renewables. It will vary by region and country. Solar is only one option.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Bloomberg New Energy Outlook 2019

https://about.bnef.com/new-energy-outlook/

Take it up with them.

They have the resources and capacity to do this kind of analysis and forecasts. Neither you or I have all the information or expertise to do this analysis.

Then how did they still get it so horrendously wrong? Nowhere in the world have wind and solar not raised costs to consumers, yet Bloomberg claims it is cheapr nearly everywhere? And you repeat it without fact checking or any critical analysis?

[chuckChuck]

Ask Bloomberg and the IEA not me. Show us your numbers from around the world!

[jazz]

Parts of central asia and western China have very good solar resources. Parts of North America also.
The southern prairies look good as well.

That doesn't mean Canada will look like Arizona or Australia when it comes to renewables. It will vary by region and country. Solar is only one option.

I consider any tech with 10% penetration dead.

Solar in Sask does little for Vancouver or Toronto now doesn't it. How will it get there.

And wind is even more localized than solar with the same problem, how to move it to where people live.

[jazz]

Here is solar + wind potential and each dot is a city with more than a million people. See how far that resource is from where people live. Unless we are going to build millions of miles of new transmission, this tech is fringe at best.

[jazz]

And if you think coal is dead you better try harder.

Here is a link to all coal plants in the world.

Sorry, renewables, you aint going to be overtaking anything anytime soon no matter how many unicorns jump out of your ass.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants Mapped: The world’s coal power plants

[chuckChuck]

Ziehan is one analysts against the the IEA and Bloomberg. Who do you think has more credibility, a single author or a large international organization and research group with many different types of specialist and experts?

"I consider any tech with 10% penetration dead." LOL

Huh? Canada produces less than 4% of the worlds wheat. Is the Canadian wheat industry dead?

"Solar in Sask does little for Vancouver or Toronto now doesn't it. How will it get there.
And wind is even more localized than solar with the same problem, how to move it to where people live."

Huh again? How do they move renewable hydro electricity from northern Quebec to the US? Or from Manitoba to Saskatchewan?

In many cases in many parts of the world the solar will be on the roof tops or in nearby utility scale projects.

Solar and wind are not the answer in every jurisdiction. And I never said they were.

[seldomseen]

Chuck you think exactly like some of my NDP neighbors. I have listened to them for years wail on and on about Grant Devine then in the next sentence they brag about how smart they are because they got gas and it costs them nothing to dry their grain and heat their buildings. How many lives were saved with underground power? How about the convenience of not farming around power poles and not having the power out when ever the weather was bad?

Hugh investment in infrastructure that brought Sask out of the Stone age after years of NDP rule and all during the worst economic decade in Saskatchewan since the thirty's. All that infrastructure cost but over time has payed back enormous benefit to the quality of life in Sask.

[chuckChuck]

Chuck you think exactly like some of my NDP neighbors. I have listened to them for years wail on and on about Grant Devine then in the next sentence they brag about how smart they are because they got gas and it costs them nothing to dry their grain and heat their buildings. How many lives were saved with underground power? How about the convenience of not farming around power poles and not having the power out when ever the weather was bad?

Hugh investment in infrastructure that brought Sask out of the Stone age after years of NDP rule and all during the worst economic decade in Saskatchewan since the thirty's. All that infrastructure cost but over time has payed back enormous benefit to the quality of life in Sask.

I agree rural gas has been great. I missed out on underground power lines. But because of the oil industry we spend a lot of time dodging older poles. The new leases all have underground.

The original post was about Newfoundland and their tremendous debt and risk because of Muskrat falls and a downturn in the oil economy. This happened while the Conservatives were in power.

Grant Devine was caught in a bad economy mostly beyond his control. But its governments job to manage the situation as best as possible.

There were several grant and loan programs that went to people who didn't need it. I don't have my finger on all the budgets of those years. But the lets face the fact that Devine's Conservatives weren't the most fiscally responsible government.

Romanow had to cut services and save the province from financial ruin because of Devine's mismanagement. Conservatives still blame Romanow for cutting in rural Saskatchewan.

Conservatives often have a poor record in managing provincial finances. So lets end the myth that Conservative governments are fiscally more responsible.

The two examples of Devine's Saskatchewan and more recent Conservative governments in Newfoundland are prime examples.