Remember when the Liberal carbon tax was a conservative idea?

[furrowtickler]

I wonder how the California extreme drought is doing ?? Ohh ya it’s gone .
Snowpack way above normal again and all reservoirs are full.
It froze here at the end of August.... again
Had a frost at the end of May ... again
Had 4 snows in September... love this global warming lol .

Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to pay the carbon tax to stem this warming catastrophe .

I wonder how India, China , Brazil and Russia are doing with their carbon taxation?? Will they abandon fossil fuels shortly as well to stop the supposed climate catastrophe ?
Just curious , asking for a friend.

[sawfly1]

Carbon tax is definatly a transfer
Of wealth scheme.

Everything govt.s do is a transfer of wealth..

Changing laws so that seed will
Cost more per year than the yearly cost of the land it is grown on ..is a transfer of wealth too.
Just to who.

Not sure that going against science
Pays off that often.

I am just afraid
That anything that hurts us competitively is a mistake.

[fjlip]

Watched a documentary think it was on Smithsonian, about the CLIMATE change that destroyed Egypt about 4000 BC. Guess what, green fertile turned to desert. The pyramids were built in a green savanna. See you climate change crazies, IT HAS HAPPENED before without billions of humans/cows/bison farting, people driving cars heating houses! Just a total LIE BS AGENDA, sick of hearing this topic. Liberals/politicians with NO BRAINS stressing the hell out of people around the globe for monetary/ wealth transfer plan! Doomsday idiots. Remember Egypt...think... reason

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Carbon tax is definatly a transfer
Of wealth scheme.

Everything govt.s do is a transfer of wealth..

Changing laws so that seed will
Cost more per year than the yearly cost of the land it is grown on ..is a transfer of wealth too.
Just to who.

Not sure that going against science
Pays off that often.

I am just afraid
That anything that hurts us competitively is a mistake.

No, a mistake is an unintended consequence of an action which was well intentioned. What this government is doing is closer to malicious, the consequences of anti-industry policies were obvious for all to see. I normally credit gross incompetence for government mismanagement, but actions of this administration clearly go far past that, well into malicious intent.

Although I have no doubt that the PM himself could easily defend his action through his obvious incompetence, inexperience, gullibility and poor advice from those propping him up.

[dmlfarmer]

Watched a documentary think it was on Smithsonian, about the CLIMATE change that destroyed Egypt about 4000 BC. Guess what, green fertile turned to desert. The pyramids were built in a green savanna. See you climate change crazies, IT HAS HAPPENED before without billions of humans/cows/bison farting, people driving cars heating houses! Just a total LIE BS AGENDA, sick of hearing this topic. Liberals/politicians with NO BRAINS stressing the hell out of people around the globe for monetary/ wealth transfer plan! Doomsday idiots. Remember Egypt...think... reason

Well if you seen a documentary then that is the end of the story! You must be right. Say, did the documentary show footage of the aliens actually building the pyramids too? And was the documentary in the same series as the ones proving the earth is flat, and the ones proving the earth is only 6000 years old?

I wonder where all the workers who built the pyramids came from if climate change destroyed Egypt as you claim about 4000BC when dating of the pyramids showed the Great Pyramid was finished around 2560BC? And what happened to that fertile topsoil for the green savanna you say the pyramids were built on given the Pyramids are actually built on bedrock of a limestone plateau? (a thinking person would have questioned how a 6 million tonne pyramid could have been built on - and still standing today - if they were built on fertile savanna soils)

But the question I really want you to answer, is how does natural climate change that has happened in the past prove that man is not or could not be having an impact on our climate. There has always been forest fires that happen naturally. That does not prove that man has never been responsible for starting a forest fire.

Yes, climate change has happened without man. There is no question of that. But the question man must ask is what impact is he having on climate. If you do not question that, you are not thinking or reasoning - just ignoring.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Well if you seen a documentary then that is the end of the story! You must be right. Say, did the documentary show footage of the aliens actually building the pyramids too? And was the documentary in the same series as the ones proving the earth is flat, and the ones proving the earth is only 6000 years old?

I wonder where all the workers who built the pyramids came from if climate change destroyed Egypt as you claim about 4000BC when dating of the pyramids showed the Great Pyramid was finished around 2560BC? And what happened to that fertile topsoil for the green savanna you say the pyramids were built on given the Pyramids are actually built on bedrock of a limestone plateau? (a thinking person would have questioned how a 6 million tonne pyramid could have been built on fertile savanna soils)

But the question I really want you to answer, is how does natural climate change that has happened in the past prove that man is not or could not be having an impact on our climate. There has always been forest fires that happen naturally. That does not prove that man has never been responsible for starting a forest fire.

Yes, climate change has happened without man. There is no question of that. But the question man must ask is what impact is he having on climate. If you do not question that, you are not thinking or reasoning - just ignoring.

You might want to do your research before Denying the drastic climate, vegetation, and even the soil changes To most of north Africa, Mesopotamia and the rest of the Middle East.
A really good and interesting reference on the subject Is dirt, the erosion of civilizations By David Montgomery , A strong supporter of the CAGW agenda, So should be an acceptable source for you. That book should be required reading for everyone, especially farmers and policymakers

[dmlfarmer]

You might want to do your research before Denying the drastic climate, vegetation, and even the soil changes To most of north Africa, Mesopotamia and the rest of the Middle East.
A really good and interesting reference on the subject Is dirt, the erosion of civilizations By David Montgomery , A strong supporter of the CAGW agenda, So should be an acceptable source for you. That book should be required reading for everyone, especially farmers and policymakers

I am not denying civilizations have ended because of climate change. But I am pointing out that just because a civilization failed due to climate change does not prove man is not having an effect on climate today. That was my point, and it was easy to make when the documentary that filip presents as proof do not match facts. Like dates or like the fact a savanna soil could ever support a 6,000,000 tonne structure.

No question in Roman times North Africa was the breadbasket of the world. So what happened? Was it entirely natural climate variation? Or did man also have an impact by deforestation and tillage that destroyed soil structure leading to erosion? Was there overgrazing of these lush lands to the point of erosion? Was there water depletion of surface and ground water, leading to declining production and erosion?

You do not have to go back to ancient times to see environmental impacts of climate and man. The Gobi desert is expanding at roughly 3400 square km/year. The Sahara desert has expanded by 650,000 sq km over the past 50 years. Is it all natural or has farming practices, overgrazing and deforestation played a role? The Ogallala aquifer supports 1/5 of the US agriculture production but is being depleted. Which is playing a bigger role - drought and a lack of recharge or man's use of water from the aquifer.

IMHO man played a role in the desertification of North Africa just as he is playing a role in climate change today. Instead of arguing about if he is playing a role, the question should be how much of a role is man playing and how can we mitigate man's impact.

Denying man's role in past desertification is no different than denying our role in climate matters.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Exactly, so many very real, very imminent, and very solvable man made environmental problems in the world right now, and you correctly listed a bunch of them. Imagine How many of those we could have solved already, With the hundreds of billions of dollars wasted trying to wage war on plant food. If the goal is to be able to feed 10 billion people sustainably, The ROI tackling any or all of the problems you listed, would be literally infinitely higher than spending it fighting CO2.

[sumdumguy]

Exactly, so many very real, very imminent, and very solvable man made environmental problems in the world right now, and you correctly listed a bunch of them. Imagine How many of those we could have solved already, With the hundreds of billions of dollars wasted trying to wage war on plant food. If the goal is to be able to feed 10 billion people sustainably, The ROI tackling any or all of the problems you listed, would be literally infinitely higher than spending it fighting CO2.

So true! Even the UN places climate changeway down on their list of priorities.

[dmlfarmer]

The ROI tackling any or all of the problems you listed, would be literally infinitely higher than spending it fighting CO2.

On what basis are you making this claim about ROI being infinitely higher?