For Chuck

[Hamloc]

No you didn't show that Hamloc, you guessed. You'll need to explain to me how the snow also seemingly shut down several coal and gas fired generators for the month of February also. Unless you can do that you can prove nothing.

You are arguing with the wrong person on your second point. Pretty obvious energy consumption here is higher in January than July. But oh no! - SF3s power bills are higher in Florida than in Saskatchewan backed by his buddy robertbarlage's assertion that AC uses more power than a furnace. Wintering in Florida uses how much AC power usage versus the heat needed in a SK home??
As they say "Hey, if they can make up shit so can we"

You know Grassfarmer you never cease to amaze me. I showed you a quote of a news release from the company that operates the Sundance coal generation plants that they were shut down until 2020 to optimize efficiency. If you look back at our last discussion on this you would see that. But I have come to understand even with proof you won't admit you are wrong. Enjoy your day.

[grassfarmer]

You know Grassfarmer you never cease to amaze me. I showed you a quote of a news release from the company that operates the Sundance coal generation plants that they were shut down until 2020 to optimize efficiency. If you look back at our last discussion on this you would see that. But I have come to understand even with proof you won't admit you are wrong. Enjoy your day.

I remember you showing the news item concerning 2 of the coal generation plants. That still does not explain the amount of non-production shown on the website you provided. Currently there are 5/16 coal plants not generating, 14/27 gas not generating, 5/9 hydro facilities not producing anything according to your website. I don't claim to understand that website information - is the total generation capacity more than is needed hence some are not producing for the grid depending on whose bids are currently winning? I just don't believe you can claim as proof that solar doesn't work the fact that 1 solar facility didn't produce some days in February and that it must be due to snow. What about the hydro facilities that are producing nothing now? Has the Oldman river quit running? is the Raymond reservoir empty? you'd think this time of year with runoff water levels high these things would be in full production.

I just don't think you know enough, on the basis of this website information, to speculate on the reason for non-production from the Brooks solar facility on certain days.

[Guest]

Heres another take on it. Maybe theyre shut down because the power is not needed ? Can you imagine how much less power we need now than compared to before trudeau got in ? Can you imagine how much demand has dried up with all the industry hehas chased away ??

[grassfarmer]

Heres another take on it. Maybe theyre shut down because the power is not needed ? Can you imagine how much less power we need now than compared to before trudeau got in ? Can you imagine how much demand has dried up with all the industry hehas chased away ??

Why imagine when you can use facts? The information on Alberta generation and usage on an annual basis is all outlined on this page:

http://www.auc.ab.ca/pages/annual-electricity-data.aspx http://http://www.auc.ab.ca/pages/annual-electricity-data.aspx

Energy generation and consumption has risen year on year up until 2017 (last year of data shown). Industrial usage peaked in 2001 with other comparable high years being 2005 and 2006. Between 2007 and 2017 the industrial consumption remained level so no downturn as you "imagined" - created either by Trudeau or Notley's election.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

2007 called, they want their Forbes report back......
https://www.powerengineeringint.com/articles/2018/11/solar-and-wind-now-the-cheapest-power-source-says-bloombergnef.html https://www.powerengineeringint.com/articles/2018/11/solar-and-wind-now-the-cheapest-power-source-says-bloombergnef.html

The report out today says that solar and/or onshore wind are
now the economic generation source of choice, even in China and India “where not long ago, coal was king. In India, best-in-class solar and wind plants are now half the cost of new coal plants.”

As electric vehicle manufacturing ramps-up, battery costs are set to drop another 66 per cent by 2030, according to BNEF’s analysis. This, in turn, means cheaper battery storage for the power sector, lowering the cost of peak power and flexible capacity to levels never reached before by conventional fossil-fuel peaking plants.

I read these type of articles quite regularly, often from reputable sources, and they are very encouraging and makes one optimistic about our future. Which is why I am looking for answers as to why this NEVER translates into cheaper power for the end consumer, but instead always has the opposite effect. Does LCOE fail to account for some very substantial and indirect costs to the grid? If these articles are to be taken at face value, Mallee should have the cheapest power anywhere, instead has to seek out alternatives due to the unsustainable costs being imposed by these cheap energy sources. Somehow, the studies and the real world are gravitating in different directions.

As for electric vehicle manufacturing ramping up, sales have fallen off a cliff in the US in 2019, barely a third of what they were in December. Apparently subsidies are quite effective. I'm watching battery technology progress, and so far have not seen or heard of anything in the pipeline that will revolutionise storage costs, but remain optimistic.

Not sure why you brought up 2007, both articles, (mine and yours) are from 2018?

[Guest]

Why imagine when you can use facts? The information on Alberta generation and usage on an annual basis is all outlined on this page:

http://www.auc.ab.ca/pages/annual-electricity-data.aspx http://http://www.auc.ab.ca/pages/annual-electricity-data.aspx

Energy generation and consumption has risen year on year up until 2017 (last year of data shown). Industrial usage peaked in 2001 with other comparable high years being 2005 and 2006. Between 2007 and 2017 the industrial consumption remained level so no downturn as you "imagined" - created either by Trudeau or Notley's election.

No no , youre right. He has canada just humming
New auto jobs created in ontario every month , stealing them from the US
Drilling rigs are moving from the US to canada every week . Oilpatch is going a lot better than the US patch
Farming is better than ever
Construction absolutely booming in sask
Carbon tax will give us an unfair advantage over the US
New buisnesses are moving here
Yea its all good , FM

[malleefarmer]

I get chucks cross subsidiaztion comment simple really.

I pay same per kw as my city counterparts. The costs of poles power lines to get it here to me is enormous compared to city folk

[grassfarmer]

No no , youre right. He has canada just humming
New auto jobs created in ontario every month , stealing them from the US
Drilling rigs are moving from the US to canada every week . Oilpatch is going a lot better than the US patch
Farming is better than ever
Construction absolutely booming in sask
Carbon tax will give us an unfair advantage over the US
New buisnesses are moving here
Yea its all good , FM

Can't deal with the facts in the official document hey? so just post some bullshit as usual. Alberta electricity generation and consumption has increased year on year regardless whether it was a PC or NDP Government provincially or a Conservative or Liberal Government nationally.

[Guest]

Can't deal with the facts in the official document hey? so just post some bullshit as usual. Alberta electricity generation and consumption has increased year on year regardless whether it was a PC or NDP Government provincially or a Conservative or Liberal Government nationally.

Some things arent meant to be serious but it always slips right over your head
No i said your right , wtf is the problem
Holiday time for you for sure ?
All govts are a waste of time as far as im converned , but this one is even more screwed up than most
I miss grant devine
Hows calving going ?

[Hamloc]

I remember you showing the news item concerning 2 of the coal generation plants. That still does not explain the amount of non-production shown on the website you provided. Currently there are 5/16 coal plants not generating, 14/27 gas not generating, 5/9 hydro facilities not producing anything according to your website. I don't claim to understand that website information - is the total generation capacity more than is needed hence some are not producing for the grid depending on whose bids are currently winning? I just don't believe you can claim as proof that solar doesn't work the fact that 1 solar facility didn't produce some days in February and that it must be due to snow. What about the hydro facilities that are producing nothing now? Has the Oldman river quit running? is the Raymond reservoir empty? you'd think this time of year with runoff water levels high these things would be in full production.

I just don't think you know enough, on the basis of this website information, to speculate on the reason for non-production from the Brooks solar facility on certain days.

If I remember correctly Alberta's total generation capacity is over 16000 mw and consumption ranges between 9500-11000 mw. And it is not my website, it is the website for the Alberta Electric System Operator, the entity that manages power distribution in Alberta. And I would certainly agree that the cheapest sources of generation would be brought online first as any properly designed public electrical grid would have built in excess capacity.


Your questions on why certain sources of hydro are not producing is a good one that I cannot answer. One thing is abundantly clear to me and that is that solar and wind work very well as intermittent top ups to the grid and help to lower our use of fossil fuels when the conditions are right but environmentalists believe renewables can provide 100% of our power needs and I think this idea is ludicrous. Environmentalists would get my support if they were promoting nuclear power.