For Chuck

[AlbertaFarmer5]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/04/23/if-solar-and-wind-are-so-cheap-why-are-they-making-electricity-more-expensive/#1a396481dc66

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/04/23/if-solar-and-wind-are-so-cheap-why-are-they-making-electricity-more-expensive/#1a396481dc66 https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/04/23/if-solar-and-wind-are-so-cheap-why-are-they-making-electricity-more-expensive/#1a396481dc66

[SASKFARMER3]

Good article

Chucky explain

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I've been asking this question of chuck for a long time.

He won't answer me, I'm just a dumb farmer, of course.

Perhaps Forbes is more of an authority on the subject and will warrant a response.

There are lots of other more technical articles and papers on the subject if he is interested In doing some more research.
Just happened upon this one which was much easier to read for the Layman, and from a source which is not as easy to dismiss.

[Guest]

I think that ship has already sailed as is obvious in some of the last threads . Filling up landfills in Austrailia, farmers left on the hook for cleanup and liens on land after wind projects fail ??
and just imagine if a downstream emission test was applied to them ?
luckily the world is waking up to the bullshit surrounding solar/wind power . cost taxpayers millions , though
But as I have said before , if you argue with a doorknob , you will not win

[malleefarmer]

Guess im not giving you a answer but same happening here reneaable grid power going through the roof declining supply.

Solar getting cheaper and with batteries maybe able to go off the grid almost. But power is gonna continue its meteororic rise in price so it almost a no brainer to go solar.

Can be argued im being "forced" economically to do it.

Guess im just accepting that its the way it is. Got my power bill a few days ago will post it later tonight morning here now

[chuckChuck]

We already covered this in previous discussions. Perhaps A5 forgot or just got bored and decided to bring it up for something to do? LOL

Generation costs are only a portion of delivering electricity to customers. Regardless of the cost of generation, the grid maintenance, replacement and expansion costs keep going up.

Solar and wind could be lower or competitive cost generation sources and consumer electricity prices could still be rising due to other grid costs.

Renewables are only a portion of the generation capacity which varies depending on the utility, region and country.

Every situation and cost structure for each utility will be different so you really need to ask your utilities.

Sask power is adding new gas plants, wind and a little solar. They put $1.5 billion into carbon capture and storage at Boundary. Their aging grid seems is prone to a lot of black outs. Why is the price of their electricity going up? You will have to ask them.

[SASKFARMER3]

Sask is cheap compared to Ontario

[AlbertaFarmer5]

We already covered this in previous discussions. Perhaps A5 forgot or just got bored and decided to bring it up for something to do? LOL

Generation costs are only a portion of delivering electricity to customers. Regardless of the cost of generation, the grid maintenance, replacement and expansion costs keep going up.

Solar and wind could be lower or competitive cost generation sources and consumer electricity prices could still be rising due to other grid costs.

Renewables are only a portion of the generation capacity which varies depending on the utility, region and country.

Every situation and cost structure for each utility will be different so you really need to ask your utilities.

Sask power is adding new gas plants, wind and a little solar. They put $1.5 billion into carbon capture and storage at Boundary. Their aging grid seems is prone to a lot of black outs. Why is the price of their electricity going up? You will have to ask them.

Well, that seems like a satisfactory answer. So it is just a random coincidence that grid distribution costs happened to go up disproportionately and coincidentally in every single jurisdiction where unreliables were also increased to unsustainable levels. I will refrain from making a comment on the inability to perform basic math. But will point out that it is strange how you state over and over that the very weak and often counter correlation is definitive proof of causation in regards to global warming and CO2, but when it comes to electricity prices, a very strong correlation, repeated in every single experiment world over, isn't enough to link it to any specific causation.

[chuckChuck]

Hydro Quebec publishes a comparison of electricity prices in major cities across North America.

Ontario prices are in the middle and substantially cheaper than many locations in the USA.

http://www.hydroquebec.com/data/documents-donnees/pdf/comparison-electricity-prices.pdf

[chuckChuck]

Well, that seems like a satisfactory answer. So it is just a random coincidence that grid distribution costs happened to go up disproportionately and coincidentally in every single jurisdiction where unreliables were also increased to unsustainable levels. I will refrain from making a comment on the inability to perform basic math. But will point out that it is strange how you state over and over that the very weak and often counter correlation is definitive proof of causation in regards to global warming and CO2, but when it comes to electricity prices, a very strong correlation, repeated in every single experiment world over, isn't enough to link it to any specific causation.

Go ahead and show us the math to back up your arguments. If you are not to busy?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Go ahead and show us the math to back up your arguments. If you are not to busy?

Did you bother to read the article? Can you find any faults with the facts presented? I've asked multiple times for you to provide an example where unreliables haven't increased costs disproportionately, and you have failed to find even a single example. And yes, I am TOO busy( better catch that before Grassfarmer comes along to correct us).

[Hamloc]

Good article AB5. Not surprised Chuck couldn't understand it. There is no doubt that ideology limits all of our abilities to comprehend certain concepts. Those who appear to have a left leaning bias like Chuck refuse to admit the inefficiency of renewables and try to use decisions by governments who are driven by uninformed public opinion as a gauge of the viability of such things as renewables. My personal opinion is if you want to make a business unprofitable and the service it provides unaffordable get government involved. Enjoy your day.

[grassfarmer]

... So it is just a random coincidence that grid distribution costs happened to go up disproportionately and coincidentally in every single jurisdiction where unreliables were also increased to unsustainable levels....

So maybe you could explain the meteoric rise in grid distribution costs in Alberta during the reign of the last few PC administrations? Hint: It wasn't anything to do with renewables - google AltaLink.

[wd9]

2007 called, they want their Forbes report back......

https://www.powerengineeringint.com/articles/2018/11/solar-and-wind-now-the-cheapest-power-source-says-bloombergnef.html https://www.powerengineeringint.com/articles/2018/11/solar-and-wind-now-the-cheapest-power-source-says-bloombergnef.html

The report out today says that solar and/or onshore wind are now the economic generation source of choice, even in China and India “where not long ago, coal was king. In India, best-in-class solar and wind plants are now half the cost of new coal plants.”

As electric vehicle manufacturing ramps-up, battery costs are set to drop another 66 per cent by 2030, according to BNEF’s analysis. This, in turn, means cheaper battery storage for the power sector, lowering the cost of peak power and flexible capacity to levels never reached before by conventional fossil-fuel peaking plants.

[Horse]

So maybe you could explain the meteoric rise in grid distribution costs in Alberta during the reign of the last few PC administrations? Hint: It wasn't anything to do with renewables - google AltaLink.

I was on the board for our REA and you are right it was King Ralph, and he gave it to Steve West to administer(and a bigger asshole there never was) at our convention he stood up there and declared by god he wanted deregulation and by god the minons had better supply, at the time the liberals clamed it would cost the taxpayers 17 billion whitch at the time i thought that was high,but as it played out that was probably low,and it turned out as reregulation not deregulation. Thank a PC