It’s a Convoy

[Oliver88]

Great to see this convoy going ahead representing Agriculture and Energy with a clear message.
No carbon tax.
No c48.
No c69.

This convoy is representing our agriculture interests well. 👍🏻

[grassfarmer]

I have to admit I'm not well informed about this pipeline deal. Is it Trudeau that is against it and is the hold up? I thought he was all for it even bought out KM when they were pulling out.

I thought it was BC people that were scared of oil spill and the fact that 6 more boats a day were going to hurt the Orca whale population.

Please enlighten me!

That's the problem - a lot of uninformed people. They don't know who is for or against a pipeline. They don't understand that you can't build a pipeline instantly, it could take a decade or more by which time market factors might have changed completely. They can't explain how increasing export capacity into a depressed market will increase profitability. They can't explain how Trudeau was able to depress world oil prices ahead of his election. They blame Trudeau for everything because they didn't like the last election result.... and that's what this convoy really is - the poor losers convoy.

[bucket]

That's the problem - a lot of uninformed people. They don't know who is for or against a pipeline. They don't understand that you can't build a pipeline instantly, it could take a decade or more by which time market factors might have changed completely. They can't explain how increasing export capacity into a depressed market will increase profitability. They can't explain how Trudeau was able to depress world oil prices ahead of his election. They blame Trudeau for everything because they didn't like the last election result.... and that's what this convoy really is - the poor losers convoy.

Maybe true but it was Trudeau that used the excuse that energy east wasn't economically viable when he added another layer of study to it....and you are right it takes years to build a pipeline which also means by the time it was built there would've been an economical case for doing so...

Had energy east been built and I don't know the timeline but maybe this convoy wouldn't have had to happen along with all the other discourse Trudeau has brought upon this country...

As a farmer he has not helped the India pulse issue, he and his team have essentially got Saudi Arabia to quit buying wheat from canada, he has pissed off the Chinese market which was from what I was told where the pulses were the next great opportunity as well as the flax market...that could all be ****ed up because Trudeau didn't put any effort into being a Prime Minister...he wanted to be a laughing stock ...

And this latest issue has nothing to do with Harper....Trudeau has to own it this time....

[jazz]

That's the problem - a lot of uninformed people. They don't know who is for or against a pipeline. They don't understand that you can't build a pipeline instantly, it could take a decade or more by which time market factors might have changed completely. They can't explain how increasing export capacity into a depressed market will increase profitability. They can't explain how Trudeau was able to depress world oil prices ahead of his election. They blame Trudeau for everything because they didn't like the last election result.... and that's what this convoy really is - the poor losers convoy.

grass stop pretending you know anything about this business. It takes 10 yrs because of the stupid regulations put in front of these projects. TransCanada spent billions on these things for studies and reports and not a shovel in the ground before abandoning it after 10 yrs.

If you knew anything about business, uncertainty is the killer and that's exactly what Trudeau has brought. He is as responsible for the problem as any price crash. There are overseas customers that want lower quality crudes because they have no oil. They have come here begging for our product and we cant get it to them. Do you know how stupid that is?

[Hamloc]

That's the problem - a lot of uninformed people. They don't know who is for or against a pipeline. They don't understand that you can't build a pipeline instantly, it could take a decade or more by which time market factors might have changed completely. They can't explain how increasing export capacity into a depressed market will increase profitability. They can't explain how Trudeau was able to depress world oil prices ahead of his election. They blame Trudeau for everything because they didn't like the last election result.... and that's what this convoy really is - the poor losers convoy.

Grassfarmer I asked you before, do you support Trudeau's policies? Last time I asked no response.
Who is for or against a pipeline? This is a quote from Gerald Butts in 2012:"Truth be told, we don't think there ought to be a carbon-based energy industry by the middle of this century. That's our policy in Canada and it's our policy all over the world..." At the time he was the head of the World Wildlife fund. So do I think Justin Trudeau supports building pipelines? Absolutely not.

So should it take 10 years to get approval to build a pipeline? No it shouldn't and that is the problem in Canada. Bill C-69 to me looks like it will make the process worse by opening up the process to more people and in the end it comes down to a decision yes or no from the environment minister. Bill C-48 bans oil tankers from the BC coast except for the port of Vancouver. Personally I always thought Prince Rupert would be the best place to load oil tankers, this bill eliminates that possibility.

Grassfarmer Alberta reduced oil production by roughly 8% Jan. 1,2019 or roughly 350000 barrels per day. This was done to reduce the glut of oil in storage by more closely matching production with export capacity. The price of WCS oil went from the high 20's per barrel to the low 40's. If lack of pipeline capacity wasn't influencing the price why did the price increase? WTI did not go up! 350000 barrels represents .35% of daily world oil consumption, not enough to move the market. Enjoy your day.

[burnt]

grass stop pretending you know anything about this business. It takes 10 yrs because of the stupid regulations put in front of these projects. TransCanada spent billions on these things for studies and reports and not a shovel in the ground before abandoning it after 10 yrs.

If you knew anything about business, uncertainty is the killer and that's exactly what Trudeau has brought. He is as responsible for the problem as any price crash. There are overseas customers that want lower quality crudes because they have no oil. They have come here begging for our product and we cant get it to them. Do you know how stupid that is?

Exactly. His reply was like the red flag waved by the bull fighter - it merely distracts from the body of the argument.

It comes as a big surprise that there are those (farmers) who do not understand how, even with a depressed market, the extra pipeline capacity can support prices - it's called "narrowing the basis".

For a relevant comparison - suppose you were fortunate and grew a 100 bushel per acre wheat crop, a 125 bushel canola crop, and a bin-busting lentil crop, all in one year.

You'd think you would be rich, right? After all, the demand is there and you only need to get it to port.

One catch - the wheat market is soft, like maybe about $5.00 at the port. (I really don't know what a historically soft price is for your wheat out west)

Only one other little problem - the rail lines are all down or completely booked full for the next 10 years and your crop is stranded in your bin.

So, what is your on-farm stored wheat worth in that situation? Like maybe a negative $3.50 basis? You going to haul it over the mountain from Regina 40T at a time?

And no one will add another rail line, even with the knowledge that the demand for wheat is guaranteed, if a bit elastic...

The extra moving capacity will make your crop viable, even if the overall market is soft.

Regardless of whatever developments might come about for energy, oil will always be in demand and there will always be a market for oil.

To lose sight of that reality is what's crippling the economy, costing jobs and growth.

And it's all going according to the NWO plan.

[the big wheel]

Exactly. His reply was like the red flag waved by the bull fighter - it merely distracts from the body of the argument.

It comes as a big surprise that there are those (farmers) who do not understand how, even with a depressed market, the extra pipeline capacity can support prices - it's called "narrowing the basis".

For a relevant comparison - suppose you were fortunate and grew a 100 bushel per acre wheat crop, a 125 bushel canola crop, and a bin-busting lentil crop, all in one year.

You'd think you would be rich, right? After all, the demand is there and you only need to get it to port.

One catch - the wheat market is soft, like maybe about $5.00 at the port. (I really don't know what a historically soft price is for your wheat out west)

Only one other little problem - the rail lines are all down or completely booked full for the next 10 years and your crop is stranded in your bin.

So, what is your on-farm stored wheat worth in that situation? Like maybe a negative $3.50 basis? You going to haul it over the mountain from Regina 40T at a time?

And no one will add another rail line, even with the knowledge that the demand for wheat is guaranteed, if a bit elastic...

The extra moving capacity will make your crop viable, even if the overall market is soft.

Regardless of whatever developments might come about for energy, oil will always be in demand and there will always be a market for oil.

To lose sight of that reality is what's crippling the economy, costing jobs and growth.

And it's all going according to the NWO plan.

Well I ve asked for an explanation of how a pipeline means lower fuel prices for not only farmers but the entire economy? No answers either.
The argument is that we are missing all these high priced markets so ok let’s assume that’s true we will then as farmers get a lower domestic price somehow? Hahahaha

I m all for pipeline or doubling rail which would benefit all industries across the country not just one. But go for the pipeline but no one guarantees that producing more for a low price isn’t going to have to be subsidized as it is now domestically at the pumps and in every good that is transported with the higher than what should be price at the pump.

As far as rail and lower basis forget it if there is no oil it might actually go up with the lesser revenue coming in order to keep up we might and I think likely will pay more for shipping.

Laughable to say oil is a arguing for us when we ve been overpaying then since the beginning and will be even more after we access the so called high markets for an inferior product in a world where countries everywhere are announcing huge oil discoveries. Need to move on get a plan to use that oil to give every industry domestically a production advantage amongst the world competitors. But that would involve having governments not owned by the oil masters.

[blackpowder]

It's rather evident that grassfarmer is the uninformed one.

[jazz]

It's rather evident that grassfarmer is the uninformed one.

Wheel too. The prices at the pump are under $1 per litre. that's as low as its been in a long time. there is already 20c tax on the pump with the carbon tax to be added. Pipeline capacity has no effect on your local pump prices.

But if the prices are too high, sure would be nice to have an extra 15B a year coming into govt coffers so they don't need to tax so hard. Now that's gone.

Some people have very little understanding of basic economics.

[Braveheart]

The medium is the message again. They're taking trucks to lobby for a pipeline (and repeal of bills that deter pipelines). Pipelines are a form of transportation. Transportation infrastructure is very lacking in Canada. The rail system, crumbling and light roads, congested sea ports are all choking industry and business in Canada. Even internet service can be considered transportation and we are far behind in internet speed everywhere and especially outside major centres.