Wilson-Raybould resigns....

[shtferbrains]

Well-he could have been like Trump
And said it never happened, no possible way.
Only to have it come out later
He did.

Sounds like legally , he might be on OK ground.
If the conversation transpired
As he portrays.
Ethics wise , well that is another story.

The firing sends the signal that
His hint was not taken up..


It was not like when Trump asked
Comey to let it go.

If he just floated the hint, and she did not take it up.
Left it totally to her.

Or at least that is his line at this point

Sawfly you might read the Macleans article Bob posted above to get a better understanding of how closely SNC and the Liberals worked to re-wright the criminal code so they could come away with a fine and no criminal charges.

Hard to believe they spent months setting this up and slipped it thru on pg 365 of the budget and then he met her in the hallway and "he just floated the hint, and she did not take it up". Left it totally up to her.

[dmlfarmer]

I've been thinking the same thing, that asshole Trudeau, throws Canadian taxpayer money around the globe like it has no value. But in the mean time the residents of Cat Lake First Nation are suffering, and how many others?

What the **** does Venezuela need Canadaian aid for when we have Canadian citizens living in those squalor conditions, let's take care of our own first. .....what a wreck, we have to teach them, ignoring things has come to this!

Jazz loves to throw that Trudeau has given $20 billion to foreign governments and it is true. But what he will not admit to is that foreign aid has not gone up significantly under Trudeau and as a percentage of GNI in Canada was actually higher under Harper than Trudeau. And in constant dollars, the highest Canadian foreign aid ever was actually in 2011-12
The previous Conservative government provided more than $45 billion in foreign aid in the 9 years between 2006 and 2015 and they did not solve the first nation problems with twice the money over twice the time period.
http://aidwatchcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/May-2017-Table-of-Canadian-ODA-1980-2017.pdf http://aidwatchcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/May-2017-Table-of-Canadian-ODA-1980-2017.pdf
And I will provide the same answer to you as I did Jazz as to why any Canadian government provides foreign aid: a moral responsibility, living up to global agreements made with regard to foreign aid, foreign aid tends to be much cheaper than war, future trade benefits with countries we help, and by assisting someone to be able to live in their home country makes it much less likely they will either seek refuge status in Canada which is more costly, or develop such hatred for our better lifestyle they are prepared to attack our lifestyle.

[dmlfarmer]

I've been thinking the same thing, that asshole Trudeau, throws Canadian taxpayer money around the globe like it has no value. But in the mean time the residents of Cat Lake First Nation are suffering, and how many others?

What the **** does Venezuela need Canadaian aid for when we have Canadian citizens living in those squalor conditions, let's take care of our own first. .....what a wreck, we have to teach them, ignoring things has come to this!

And I will ask a question of you farmholic: How much money should we be spending to solve First Nations problems? The Public Accounts of Canada show that Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada (INAC) budget for 2017 was over 9 Billion; about twice the amount Canada spends globally in foreign aid . In the Feb 2018 budget, another 5 billion was added in specific projects to the base budget:

Budget 2018 renews the Government of Canada's commitment to building a new relationship together with Indigenous peoples, based on recognition of rights, respect, cooperation, and partnership. It builds on significant investments of $11.8 billion in the previous two budgets and takes further steps towards reconciliation by investing in priority areas identified by First Nations, Inuit and Métis Nation partners.
•Clean and safe drinking water: $172.6 million over three years
•First Nations Child and Family Services: $1.449 billion over six years
•Support for distinctions-based housing strategies: this funding is provided through a combination of Budget 2017 and Budget 2018 ◦First Nations on reserve: $600 million over three years
â—¦Inuit: $400 million over 10 years
◦Métis: $500 million over 10 years

•Indigenous health: keeping families healthy in their communities – $1.497 billion over five years
•Indigenous Skills and Employment Training Program: incremental funding of $447 million over five years
•Helping Indigenous nations reconstitute: capacity development towards rebuilding nations – $101.5 million over five years
•Permanent bilateral mechanisms: Crown working together with Assembly of First Nations, Inuit-Crown Partnership Committee and the Métis Nation on shared priorities – $74.9 million over five years
•Improving access to the Canada Child Benefit and other benefits: $17.3 million over three years
•Métis post-secondary education: $10 million in 2018-19
•Eliminating tuberculosis in Inuit Nunangat: $27.5 million over five years
•Indigenous research and data capacity: $7.6 million over five years
•Supporting Indigenous history and heritage: $23.9 million over five years
•Indigenous sports: to expand the use of sport for social development – $47.5 million over five years
•To support the expansion of the First Nation Land Management Act: $143.5 million over five years
•Increased health supports for survivors of Indian Residential Schools and their families: $248.6 million over 3 years
•Polar Knowledge Canada: strengthening Arctic science and innovation – $20.6 million over four years
•To support reconciliation initiatives through the Gord Downie & Chanie Wenjack Fund: $5 million in 2018–19

[farmaholic]

dml, you pose a question to me I'm sure you know I'm not qualified to answer.

I think it may still be better to take care of our own versus other country's needs. Regardless of the First Nations versus foreign aid ratios you put forward.

Also, regarding the list of planned expenditures in a previous thread, maybe it is time to prioritize where some of the funds are being spent and expediate the process in specific areas.

When I see some of the pictures of the kids in Cat Lake I don't see First Nations kids, I see people. It is time to change what ever it was we're doing in the past because it is obvious what we've been doing isn't working anymore and probably never was.

Education and accountability is also going to be key. Helping someone up is a much easier job if they put an effort into the task themselves.

[dmlfarmer]

dml, you pose a question to me I'm sure you know I'm not qualified to answer...

Farmaholic, it was a rhetorical question. Sorry if you felt put on the spot by it. My question was simply to get readers to think rather than accept without question statements like Trudeau gave foreign governments $20 billion. Shocking to the average person with no knowledge of Canadian foreign aid. But not nearly as impressive or inflammatory when you realize the previous Canadian government was giving even more.

Second, readers are led to believe that the $20 billion is wasted. Is it? I could be wrong, but I doubt if Jazz has ever been to a third world nation. And I don't mean staying in a 5 star tourist resort where your only contact with the local population is the housekeepers and bar tenders. I mean actually living as locals do in a third world country. You say when you look at pictures of First Nations children you see people. It is no different when you see children in any country. No matter what country you are in, they are people just like you and me. As the saying goes, But for the grace of God there goes I.

Work on an aid project in the third world and you will be shocked at how far a few dollars go. There are some really great uses of funds that are helping people immensely. Yes there projects which have waste, there is some where dollars are lost to corruption, there are some bad projects, but is it any different than what happens with some of the dollars that have been used for housing on some First Nations?

I could not agree more that what we are doing is not working. IMHO much of it is a result of the last time we tried, through residential schools to "educate" Frist Nations. A generation lost learning to be a family, learning to parent and be parents. We destroyed the social fabric of the First Nations and are now paying the price. And simply throwing money at the problem will not fix it.

So saying stop giving money to those in need in other countries will not solve our First Nation problems. It will merely increase hardships of people who are really in need of help and for which their own government can no or will not assist; whether due to war, economic troubles, or corruption.

[burnt]

dml - there's a lot of truth in what you say with regard to how aid dollars can help in countries where there is deprivation. My daughter, a nurse, works in one of them.

There is, however, a common factor between those countries and our own less fortunate peoples, one that makes it seem - I'm going to say very carefully - almost unlikely that those countries will ever achieve the standard of living that we have here.

The difference is culturally ingrained. Regardless of the label that such a statement may trigger, it is very evident.

They like the benefits of our culture, but do not seem to be able to initiate and derive those benefits in their own culture.

The question then becomes how far should a wealthy nation go in trying to solve third world problems when they seem to be self-inflicted?

It's a tough problem and I know that from watching our daughter trying to make a difference. She can literally help to save lives, but the outcome is sometimes just kicked down the road.

It is brutal what she and her compatriots go through at times.

One thing I do know - we are not nearly grateful enough for what we have here. And maybe one other thing - it's pretty hard to turn away from those needs once one becomes familiar with them, even just vicariously through my daughter. But at the same time, I harbor no illusions of really changing their culture.

[jazz]

Give me a break. All those overseas funds end up in a black hole and do nothing. We have a 3rd world country in our own backyard that has had billions upon billions thrown at it and it never changes. They are rioting in Haiti again right now.

I have been to 3rd world country before and I worked on reserves here in Sask and I am familiar with the conditions and also the corruption, but we are not rich enough to save the world. There are 200,000 homeless people here first. Solve those conditions first before you get all virtuous.

I feel like trump that aid should have conditions and shouldn't just be given freely. I'm tired of people taking our aid then vilifying us and then we encourage them to keep doing the same things keeping them poor. Venezuela thought it was the bastion of socialism and funny now capitalism has to bail it out again.

[foragefarmer]

Burnt

One thing I do know - we are not nearly grateful enough for what we have here. And maybe one other thing - it's pretty hard to turn away from those needs once one becomes familiar with them, even just vicariously through my daughter. But at the same time, I harbor no illusions of really changing their culture.


Good on your daughter for what's she's doing!!

As for your comment regarding being grateful for what we have here in CANADA , I couldn't agree with you more. I try not to forget that myself.

It's to bad so many posters here on Agriville seem to forget that way to often, and speak so highly of how great it is elsewhere in the world, etc USA, Argentina, Russia.

True B.S.

[malleefarmer]

Similar debate going on here in Aust huge increase in worldwide aide got through parliment whilst flooded and drought stricken farmers get stuff all.

But conversley like farma no expert but my belief Indonesia is our biggest recipient guess what indonesia is also our biggest wheat market so kinda you scratch my back ill scratch yours.

But fark the population of indonesia is in the vicinity of 260 to 270 million people like check out a map guys its a tiny place if they had only 100 million would they be asking for same aide who knows rhetorical question i geuss

[farmaholic]

Re: "culturally ingrained"

Yes

Is 100-150 years, or what ever, not enough time for a culture to change or adapt to a more dominant(not in a negative connotation) culture. Ironically when you measure that time in generations...3-5 isn't very many for a culture to change, especially if they aren't fully submerged in the other one. Then throw in the problems Reservation segregation fostered.

There was nothing wrong with First Nations way of life, it is just a stark difference to the European one that now dominates.

[WiltonRanch]

Re: "culturally ingrained"

Yes

Is 100-150 years, or what ever, not enough time for a culture to change or adapt to a more dominant(not in a negative connotation) culture. Ironically when you measure that time in generations...3-5 isn't very many for a culture to change, especially if they aren't fully submerged in the other one. Then throw in the problems Reservation segregation fostered.

There was nothing wrong with First Nations way of life, it is just a stark difference to the European one that now dominates.

It is great to be proud of your origins. Dwelling in the past leaves you in the past. Irregardless of your culture or race you will be left behind if you don’t change. Was only a generation ago that a catholic and Protestant marrying was taboo. How stupid that looks today. I always hate old geezers knocking today’s world when today’s world gave them a new hip and life saving heart surgery. I hate hippocrates and they exist in all cultures.

[Horse]

While I agree with a lot of what is said here,I would like to see a paper trail of the money being distrubited,how much of that money going to our natives actualy gets to the individuals ,how much is rubed off before it gets to reserve,then how much internaly on native counsel, and these forcasts looking out 5 10 yr,a lot can happen.but the gov thomps there chest and says look what we did.
Its much like the welfare system the average canadian works under,its designed to keep you poor instead of helping you get ahead, As for going to different countrys to help how many of those would go to our reserves in remote areas,I will hazard a guess less than 5%,there is no glory saying I am going to cadote lake,fort Mckay,or other out of the way places to help natives but lit me go to indonesia,africa,south america and all kinds of volenters.
We need nat geo to put spy bots on the money and see where it realy goes.

[farmaholic]

Apologies to the original tread topic for contributing to derailing it, although maybe being "somewhat" related. At this time I can only assume the reason she got shuffled then resigned. Will the truth ever be known? Remember the three sided coin analogy, the head's and tail's sides represent each side's story but the thin edge between them, dividing yet connecting, represents the truth.

Does it send the message only corrupt party-faithful are secure in their job?

[dmlfarmer]

Yes, this thread did get off topic. But to bring it back, there is a very interesting look at the SNC Lavallin/Trudeau issue in today's New York Times. It gives a very good overview of what happened at the company which led up to the current situation. And it is told by a third party without ties to either Liberals or Conservatives so it is devoid of the political rhetoric that is plaguing discussions here. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/15/world/canada/snc-lavalin-justin-trudeau.html?fbclid=IwAR1GTsZs9fRBnIKFGL5fJlx9zcMY cchvi2_J600Iy6fprQ189UPKT75C3WM https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/15/world/canada/snc-lavalin-justin-trudeau.html?fbclid=IwAR1GTsZs9fRBnIKFGL5fJlx9zcMY cchvi2_J600Iy6fprQ189UPKT75C3WM

[burnt]

Rex was a day late with this Valentine for our pretty boy PM:

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-trudeaus-mistreatment-of-a-female-aboriginal-minister-destroys-all-his-progressive-pretensions https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-trudeaus-mistreatment-of-a-female-aboriginal-minister-destroys-all-his-progressive-pretensions

He leads off with a good one:

“How bad is it?”

“How bad is it …? Well, I hear they’re planning a second trip to India. With brighter costumes and longer dances. That’s how bad. To kick it off they’re going to rename the Rideau River ‘Ganges West.’”

— Mutterings from the Glebe rumour mill.