Canada May face a Recession the USA Not!

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Comparing US debt to Canadian debt is like the old joke about the farmer and the bank, if I owe the bank $1,000,000 and I can't pay, I have a problem, If my neighbor owes the bank $10,000,000, and can't pay, the bank has a problem( Or add appropriate zeroes to make it relevant). The US can sustain what appears to be impossible debt levels far longer than anyone else.

1. 1 They have the worlds reserve currency, with no other contenders remotely close
2. 2 The US consumer is still the only market in the world, three times bigger than the next(China), every manufacturing or exporting country needs the US consumer far more than they need them.
3. 3 They have the only Military in the world capable of enforcing the peace (or enforcing whatever else they may desire to use it for)
4. 4 As per my example above, just the size of the debt, If the US decides to default on debt to China(for example), China has a problem, not the US.

Until every other economy in the world goes down in flames, the US can sustain these unsustainable debt and spending levels.

[jazz]

Comparing US debt to Canadian debt

Not to mention, the US govt assets total at least $100 trillion. They could pay the debt off tomorrow if they wanted to.

[jimmy]

I just spent some time in USA airports actually lots of time waiting for planes. So in eight hours in one airport I did some visiting with a few USA folk. A young family from California that owned a greenhouse, a young black fellow from Chicago that worked on wind turbines, two guys from Maine that installed ventilation equipment in barns, a redneck welding inspector from Alabama, and four old retired farts from Arizona California Texas and Montana. I told them where I was from and where the best place to live would be if I were to move to the USA most of them lived in several different places over the years as they were in the armed forces or were kids of enlisted parents. Stay away from the Mexican US border and California was the most common answer the windmill tech said they have security detail when working on wind farms near the border in Texas and Arizona he said it was safer in Chicago which was a shit hole and he is ready to move to a different state. The young couple from California which own a fourth generation rose farm said crime is really bad there you stay locked in your home at night. I asked about racism in the USA Most of them laughed and said to watch a different newscast. Not one of them admitted voting for Trump but all of them said he was on the right track and the people that had lived near the border or in California said they needed a wall their years ago. Montana or Alaska is where most of them would move to if they could.

[chuckChuck]

Man explaining capitalism to a socialist is like pulling your own teeth. What productive capacity does a home have? Answer none, its a liability. Now what does a piece of machinery or land do or fertilizer, right it produces something. The factors of production are NOT equivalent debt to mortgages, govt debt or consumer purchases.

Land equipment inputs are investments, not frivolous purchases. Hence they favorable taxation. You can argue that an investment doesn't work out for whatever reason but don't compare growing a crop to buying a boat or something.

So everything farmers buy is a good investment and pays for itself? Hahaha. Some farms trade equipment every year. There are a lot of $170000 high speed discs and $70,000 diesel pickups sitting on farms. Do they pay for themselves?

Yes much of what a farm needs is an investment. But just ask the machinery dealers what happens when interest rates go up? Farmers stop spending as much and Economic activity drops.

[dmlfarmer]

Not to mention, the US govt assets total at least $100 trillion. They could pay the debt off tomorrow if they wanted to.

That all depends on how you define US government assets. Those valuing assets at over $100 trillion are adding in all oil reserves, all land, buildings etc. Sure would be tough on companies with interests in an oilfield if the government suddenly sold off that field to pay down government debt. Sort of like a farmer having to sell his land to pay his debt. Second, who has the dollars to buy the assets. The Saudi? Russia? Maybe they should just sell Alaska including all oilfields back to Russia for the $21 trillion owed. Sure would make the US balance sheet look good and would be a nice return on the purchase of Alaska but rather disconcerting for Alaskans and every oil company with interests there. And to say nothing of the loss of future income to the US from not having Alaska as a state or the added military cost if they lost Alaska for its strategic position in the world.

Sure they could sell just the liquid assets the US holds, but they only amount to about 2 trillion and 49% percent of those are in the form of student loans to the US government. I wonder what the security is on student loans and how the US public would feel if the Chinese suddenly owned all student debt. Sure might make it easier for China to acquire US technology in the future.

[jazz]

That all depends on how you define US government assets.

Govt real estate in cities (not parks or monuments or capital buildings) would alone pay off the debt. No need toe even touch oil rights and the like.


Of course they don't need to do it. It serves to illustrate the US is not broke, nor is its debt out of control. On the contrary it shows that the US has used its debt to grow the economy massively as the value of govt assets attest to.

[dmlfarmer]

Govt real estate in cities (not parks or monuments or capital buildings) would alone pay off the debt. No need toe even touch oil rights and the like.


Of course they don't need to do it. It serves to illustrate the US is not broke, nor is its debt out of control. On the contrary it shows that the US has used its debt to grow the economy massively as the value of govt assets attest to.

Jazz: Please provide some actual documentation to back up your claim that US real estate in cities could pay off the debt alone. I find your statement to be unbelievable since the US federal treasury in a 2017 report valued all federal government real estate and property assets including all federally owned land, forests, buildings and military equipment at 1.2 trillion as of 2016. http://www.mygovcost.org/2017/07/03/the-assets-and-liabilities-of-the-u-s-government/ http://www.mygovcost.org/2017/07/03/the-assets-and-liabilities-of-the-u-s-government/ Which means federally owned buildings in cities would have a value of less than 5% of federal debt.

Either you are making a statement with no basis in fact or if you are right, you should be running the US treasury as you must know a lot more than the US government.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Man explaining capitalism to a socialist is like pulling your own teeth.

When I read that the first time, I thought, I'm going to use that quote. Then I thought about it further and realized that it is a poor analogy.

At least after pulling your own teeth, you have accomplished something tangible, whereas, no matter how long you argue with an indoctrinated socialist, nothing will change.

Just read some previous threads on here as evidence.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

The more important take away from the shear scale of the numbers presented by Jazz, dml and Chuck, is utter impossibility of paying back the debt, by any government on any time scale, all are way past the point of no return, socialists and capitalists alike. Once we accept that there is no mathematical possibility of the world paying off the debt everyone owes everyone, then the number of zeroes left of the decimal becomes virtually irrelevant. Someday we will accept the inevitable and let the house of cards built on debt collapse and start over to learn the lessons all over again. In the meantime, losing sleep over government debts and deficits relative to each other is about as productive as arguing with Chuck.

[SASKFARMER3]

I live as most know in both the USA and Canada and half some of my family is American.

The USA is still powerful and yes some won’t say who they voted for but most say things are good.

Bleeding heart liberals think it’s bad.

Trudeau and his Brain damaged group have no idea what they are doing. Investment is gone and not coming back any time soon.

Chuck get out of your acreage and quit being jealous of farmers.

Yes some have way way way to much debt and will be gone.

Some have very little debt or none.

Yes chuck even some who complain how useless farming is in Canada have no operating and own all there property plus have savings.

Because money could be made years ago with cheap land and good soil and yields.


What makes me laugh is arguing with a liberal you just can’t win because there is no reasoning with them.

It’s there way or the highway.

Yes the USA is booming and yes Canada is failing. We all can’t work for welfare or the governments.

Have a great day Brandon was 👍