Saskatoon seed royalty meeting

[dmlfarmer]

What about disease resistance example fusarium , drought tolerant, lower inputs needed, much shorter straw. Sawfly resistant Salt tolerant etc etc.

I find it interesting that GMO technology was promised to bring these same benefits to growers but in reality the only benefit out of GMO to the grain grower was herbicide tolerance. And interestingly it was only the herbicides which the developers of the technology were already selling. Yes, society did get non browning apples, but there was no product on the market which the trait would replace. And it does offer golden rice which the market refuses to accept. But how about the seed industry develop these magnificent traits first, and then farmers will flock to buy them at your price (see canola) instead of more empty promises that may or may not come to pass.

Oh and by the way, please provide the answers to the questions you asked as I am sure you must know. Just don't forget to detail where the answers you provide came from and how they were verified. Because I am sure you must have well documented facts from credited polling firms of large numbers of Australian farmers, (and that it is just not your bias and opinion), that is the basic for the insinuation your questions leads readers to think that all Australian farmers prefer having to pay royalties over the old system./

[Tucker]

they have it already , it's called the terminator gene

From what I remember reading a white paper on the terminator technology years ago the seed would replicate as normal for seed growers but when sold to farmers for commercial production it would be coated with an antibiotic. I think it was penicillin that would activate the terminator gene upon germination and render the resulting seed production sterile. Each seed coated in the stuff. Sounds like a horrible recipe for antibiotic resistance gone wild. Thankfully that was never implemented, never ever wish it back.

[wd9]

Thanks for the explanation and link. I remember hearing a lot about it, but then it fell off the radar, and I didn't know what the status was, or if it just wasn't viable.

Don't you have that backwards, wouldn't the organic industry prefer that conventional ag adopt as many scary sounding technologies as possible, in order to use fear marketing to sell their own product?

The most puzzling thing ever, and you would think its backwards. It kind of started in very late 90's early 2000 when the organic industry sued Monsanto for adventitious presence in organic canola, I was on CCGA at the time. Well they lost and at that time decided to move towards the court of public opinion by differentiating their product as safe and GMO as unsafe. Once they headed down that path, they couldn't stop. But it does have benefits as the harder it is for conventional ag to produce product - losing chemistry like glyphosate etc, preventing the approval of novel traits etc, the less volume they have to compete with. But farmers produce too much anyways, so that didn't pan out either.

The irony is organic, as well as conventional, could both benefit greatly from bio engineering. But we won't see anything happen for years. They ruined any sort of real progress even though good ideas could come up for them as well.

[vvalk]

I find it interesting that GMO technology was promised to bring these same benefits to growers but in reality the only benefit out of GMO to the grain grower was herbicide tolerance. And interestingly it was only the herbicides which the developers of the technology were already selling. Yes, society did get non browning apples, but there was no product on the market which the trait would replace. And it does offer golden rice which the market refuses to accept. But how about the seed industry develop these magnificent traits first, and then farmers will flock to buy them at your price (see canola) instead of more empty promises that may or may not come to pass.

Oh and by the way, please give the answers to the questions you asked as I am sure you must know. Just don't forget to provide where the answers you provide came from and how they were verified. Because I am sure you must have well documented facts from credited polling firms of large numbers of Australian farmers that will tell us the number Australian farmers who prefer having to pay royalties over the old system./

Aussie farmers have been on these forums and I don’t remember any saying they hate EPR. Could be wrong for sure. You make my point that every country is different and varieties in general won’t work else where. THe whole point to say an EPR is the seed company doesn’t get paid unless the farmer buys it. If there isn’t a return on the cost then the farmer won’t buy it no one is forcing you to buy whatever seed you mention for $17. As for lower costs I’m talking about new varieties that may not need fungicide or as much fertilizer or whatever. I don’t have a crystal ball. The whole point is to get investment. As for GMO they have varieties on the shelf that would eliminate the fusarium issue

[northfarmer]

I’ll assume Bucket that was meant for me. Yes I’m fourth generation but my family doesn’t have succession issues. My great grandfather and grandfather all left farming in their fifties. My dad quit working on the farm besides helping here and there when I came back from university when I was 22 years old. I have been runnning the farm in its entirety since then have have tripled in size. All while working for almost 10 years in Ottawa helping to get rid of the CWB amongst other things. I actually get involved instead of being a know it all who sits behind a key board criticizing everything and everyone.

kudos to you Vvalk for your efforts on behalf of farmers, I have also sacrificed valuable time away from my family and my farm to engage in the politics of our industry, those that have not should give it a go and gain some perspective on our industry instead of the echo chamber they live in

jealousy is a wasted emotion, not sure why I drift back to this forum from time to time as the debate and exchanges have only degenerated more over time

I have deleted more replies and posts than i have submitted as a result and that is a shame as platforms such as this could be such a good place for thoughtful and constructive debate of issues of the day affecting farming.

[wd9]

Aussie farmers have been on these forums and I don’t remember any saying they hate EPR. Could be wrong for sure. You make my point that every country is different and varieties in general won’t work else where. THe whole point to say an EPR is the seed company doesn’t get paid unless the farmer buys it. If there isn’t a return on the cost then the farmer won’t buy it no one is forcing you to buy whatever seed you mention for $17. As for lower costs I’m talking about new varieties that may not need fungicide or as much fertilizer or whatever. I don’t have a crystal ball. The whole point is to get investment. As for GMO they have varieties on the shelf that would eliminate the fusarium issue

So why do you default to the farmer being the one providing the seed capital for the investment ?

If the seed is that good, we will buy it. What you are proposing is we provide the money in the hopes of something coming up.

And if the solution is already on the shelf, why are we even having the conversation.

[TASFarms]

I’ve heard Aussie Farms complain about having to pay royalties on the grain that they feed their animals.

[Jagfarms]

I was at the seed growers meeting and I am a seed grower.

My understanding is if they do not do something to collect the Royalties the public plant breeding will not compete with the private Seed companies. Most seed types will go the canola model where you have to buy new seed every year for a high price.

I don’t think there is many options.

These Royalties will not effect the seed that is already in the pipeline. It will only be applied to new varieties that are produced after the system is in place or Varieties that are produced after a certain date.

So you can continue growing the varieties you are using or available now and the Royalties will not effect you. So if you are happy with the varieties that are available or that you are using now continue using them.

If a new variety comes available you can buy that variety but will pay Royalties for the seed you use on your farm each year you use that variety.

They are still working on it and it will take some time to figure things out.

Most of the people on these boards are not getting paid and volunteering their time. They are doing a lot of work as I know I was on the Saskatchewan Seed growers board at one time.


There was one board seat on the Saskatchewan Seed growers board that did not get filled. I would imagine it is the same on other boards.

If anyone wants to get involved and make a difference get on one of the boards.

[bucket]

All while working for almost 10 years in Ottawa helping to get rid of the CWB amongst other things. I actually get involved instead of being a know it all who sits behind a key board criticizing everything and everyone.

So you can accept responsibility for the fact that we don't have:

1. No mandatory graincos sales reports like they do in the states....X
2. No Vessel reports...X
3. No policing of the railways....X
4. No canadian markets that are functional...X

Quite a track record on some minor details of helping to get rid of the CWB or implement an open market...

This is why I think the WCWGA on the seed tax is offside....their track record of paying attention to minor details....is pretty shitty...

And when an incident like the Triffid flax shows up in the wheat market similar to the 8 RR wheat plants....it won't matter what ****ing super variety of wheat you are growing the market will be ****ed....

Paying attention to details is very important....Call me a know it all behind a computer screen all you want...if they are not good suggestions ...dont use them ...but at least have the integrity to admit your incompetence...

[bucket]

I was at the seed growers meeting and I am a seed grower.

My understanding is if they do not do something to collect the Royalties the public plant breeding will not compete with the private Seed companies. Most seed types will go the canola model where you have to buy new seed every year for a high price.

I don’t think there is many options.

These Royalties will not effect the seed that is already in the pipeline. It will only be applied to new varieties that are produced after the system is in place or Varieties that are produced after a certain date.

So you can continue growing the varieties you are using or available now and the Royalties will not effect you. .

That last statement , respectively, is bullshit......I will point to Triffid flax as the example....and it won't matter what variety of wheat you grow.......the new variety with a royalty does not guarantee the market won't **** all other varieties....


8 plants of RR wheat shut our market down...please don't ignore facts.

[dmlfarmer]

Aussie farmers have been on these forums and I don’t remember any saying they hate EPR. Could be wrong for sure. You make my point that every country is different and varieties in general won’t work else where. THe whole point to say an EPR is the seed company doesn’t get paid unless the farmer buys it. If there isn’t a return on the cost then the farmer won’t buy it no one is forcing you to buy whatever seed you mention for $17. As for lower costs I’m talking about new varieties that may not need fungicide or as much fertilizer or whatever. I don’t have a crystal ball. The whole point is to get investment. As for GMO they have varieties on the shelf that would eliminate the fusarium issue

With all due respect, I disagree with your entire response. First, this forum and others have a very distinct bias and cater to a limited audience and opinion. To insinuate through leading questions that all Australian farmers support your views simply because you do not remember reading any posts of Australian farmers (how many Australian farmers are actually regular posters on Agriville other than Mallee???) saying they hate EPR is as credible as me claiming the color of the sky is green because no one on these forums has said it isn't green.

No question some varieties will not work in other countries. But lots will. Some Canadian developed varieties will not work on my farm either because of growing season, disease pressures, and microclimate conditions. So to suggest your work is only for Canada and will work for all farmers is BS.

And in fact I am forced to grow new varieties if old varieties are delicenced or if seed growers refuse to supply old varieties, I have no choice but to grow and pay regardless if I see any actual benefit from the development on my farm. If you are so convinced this plan will be the magic bullet and improve the margin on any farm, how about new seed coming with a guarantee. Any LOSS in revenue a grower incurs by growing a new variety as determined by a field scale, side by side comparison on the actual farm will be covered by the seed grower/seed industry. This would give the seed industry credibility in their claims and make your demands for taxing commercial production much more palatable

But most troubling is you announcement that there are GMO wheat varieties on the shelf that will solve the fusarium issue. There have also been GMO RR wheat varieties on the shelf that resulted in the closure of Japan and Korean markets. We all know what happened with Triffid flax. So now I have to know how much investment is the seed industry going to make to develop markets before introducing new varieties which the market will not accept at this time? Or is this entire research investment debate a diversion to some peoples goal of getting rid of the CGC that is limiting the ability to sell seed which the market does not want?

[the big wheel]

I’ll assume Bucket that was meant for me. Yes I’m fourth generation but my family doesn’t have succession issues. My great grandfather and grandfather all left farming in their fifties. My dad quit working on the farm besides helping here and there when I came back from university when I was 22 years old. I have been runnning the farm in its entirety since then have have tripled in size. All while working for almost 10 years in Ottawa helping to get rid of the CWB amongst other things. I actually get involved instead of being a know it all who sits behind a key board criticizing everything and everyone.

So everybody is a troll that is presenting the real facts? Your so full of shit on the payroll while the rest of us are paying for this horseshit. People like you give rhe idiots at government their ammo and stupid ideas at least stupid for us but not for the upper ranks of our industry. It's brilliant get a few **** roaches that benefit themselves represent the industry and fk the rest of you. Plain and simple that's what this allnis about.

You said you helped get rid of cwb did yo also lobby for the horrseshit system that was left that in many ways is worse than the cwb because it's led to terminal closures reallocation of trains etc that has screwed up not just wheat but other commodities as well.

[vvalk]

So you can accept responsibility for the fact that we don't have:

1. No mandatory graincos sales reports like they do in the states....X
2. No Vessel reports...X
3. No policing of the railways....X
4. No canadian markets that are functional...X

Quite a track record on some minor details of helping to get rid of the CWB or implement an open market...

This is why I think the WCWGA on the seed tax is offside....their track record of paying attention to minor details....is pretty shitty...

And when an incident like the Triffid flax shows up in the wheat market similar to the 8 RR wheat plants....it won't matter what ****ing super variety of wheat you are growing the market will be ****ed....

Paying attention to details is very important....Call me a know it all behind a computer screen all you want...if they are not good suggestions ...dont use them ...but at least have the integrity to admit your incompetence...

Too bad Bucket you weren’t running all these farm groups for the last 20 years. Everything’s wouldnbe perfect now. You have to be the smartest farmer in the prairies. Answers for everything. I bet you must be the most successful farmer in central Sask. with our attention to detail. No wait All of Sask.

[farmaholic]

So its supposed to be a "user pay" system?

Every time I use a tractor, combine, truck I don't have to send the manufacturer a check. I bought the product(seed), why do I have to continually pay to use it, either as planting seed or pay a trailing royalty? Nobody initially gave me the seed for free!

Why isn't this model presented to the general public when it comes to their private vehicles?


This website is monitored, to say bucket contributes no value to policy "thought" is dead wrong. Some of us just aren't as diplomatic in our arguments and responses. Some people can't physically take the time to dedicate to boards, that doesn't make them or their opinions any less valuable!!!

How diverse are the opinions of the WCWGA directors and look at their list of sponsors? How broad are the opinions of "elected" commodity group boards, with absolutely dismal voter turn out? Who has the biggest lobby group and budget?

[vvalk]

So everybody is a troll that is presenting the real facts? Your so full of shit on the payroll while the rest of us are paying for this horseshit. People like you give rhe idiots at government their ammo and stupid ideas at least stupid for us but not for the upper ranks of our industry. It's brilliant get a few **** roaches that benefit themselves represent the industry and fk the rest of you. Plain and simple that's what this allnis about.

You said you helped get rid of cwb did yo also lobby for the horrseshit system that was left that in many ways is worse than the cwb because it's led to terminal closures reallocation of trains etc that has screwed up not just wheat but other commodities as well.

I nevered said anyone is a troll. I just made a comment and then was attacked. Have a read back. Yup back in 2012 and before farming under the board was way better then today. Your saying terminals are closing since 2012? As for trains don’t you remember CWB forcing you to to hold 60% of your durum back and 40% of your spring wheat back year after year. Don’t you think that would effect rail. Never mind how much busier the rail lines are today bs 2012. I don’t see any extra rail lines to offset that