Comments from seed royalty meeting

[SASKFARMER3]

The seed and company trials are a big thing.

I have bought lots of varieties that shit the bed.

I was out the cash.

But its funny yesterday listening all day in the truck and heard an add about a seed company that has a variety out and its the best of everything high yield, etc.

HAHAHAHA I kicked its ass from a high of 22 bus to min of 7 in our area.

But this same company is ruthless and comes down hard on producers who don't play by their rules. Almost creating and bending the rules to get the farmer if he does wrong.

But hey they pick your varieties as they sit on that board.

We have excellent seed growers in Sask and we have complete duds who don't follow any rules.

So yes I can live with change but lets protect the producer along the way also.

Duds should not be rewarded.

[Puckbag]

I am a seed grower. I came in late and also sat at the front.

The debate on seed has been all of my life. But as a result of being a seed grower I have developed a respect for what I can do to achieve: incremental gain. A little better yield, a little better durability on quality, due to seed quality or attributes like stand ability, sprouting resistance, shatter, colour. From I lifetime of experience and 44 crops I have won and I have lost, nothing if for certain, except death and taxes. I find my quest for knowlege on varieties to acheive incremental gain has led to a I lobby for better data. We need better information on varietal performance. Better follow up on tests results, like seed quality in a bad year, standability in the snow, and yes this was a bad year, but a good year to gauge seed & weathering quality on varieties.

So many things we can and should do better.

The world is rapidly changing, seed technology is rapidly changing, it will take money to keep up, how much, well indeed nothing is free.

In AU, GOV & industry contribute not just farmers.

This is what I see:

Challenge government for matching money for seed royalty, the should anti up and if they do they will have an vested interest in insuring fees do not sky rocket.

Challenge government to set up a process of seed variety tender that is transparent and accountable as indeed the potential for conflict of interest and undue influence is real. The committee to award all varieties from public institutions should include fair and sound minds, at least one non farm lawyer, a non farm accountant, like Federated Coop reach beyond the farm for intellectual capital.

Make seed royalty a tax credit as it is used for research purposes it should be a tax credit.

Better Data: if we are going to pay more for varieties, then we need to have better data. Standardize variety tests, do agronomic and functionality, annual & averaged data, available by plot and by aggregate. Contract the process, data needs to be at arms length to plant breeders and the seed trade. Make it mandatory to be part of check off that you are in the program, and that some of the cost is supported by % of check off earned.

Many sectors of the industry benefit from seed, and yields, including elevators, part of the contribution of the delivery system is free administration.


Should we ask, why a nation will support dairy and poultry and dump beef, hogs and crops, of course, and so at the very least we need to ask for this to be done right, & for contribution. The world is increasingly more competitive, it has only just begun to show its face, We need efficient, competitive, transparent, accountable, a process of not just more money but better use of that money.

And we should ask: why not a farmer owned seed company like Limagrain?
Limagrain is highly successful the blue print is there.

Dare to find a solution.

Western Vicki,

You pose the question about a having farmer owned seed company like LimaGrain. Well the Feds have slowly been backing out of public plant breeding for a few years now, how do you think Ag Canada’s response would be if Western Canadian farmers proposed to buy AAFC plant breeding program outright? I realize it’s a long shot to get Western Canadian producers to agree to anything, but the way I see it, we have a program that has all the qualified breeders, tech staff, facilities, etc. If Ag Canada wants to reduce their responsibility, why not have us as growers take over?

Now there are a lot of logistical questions on how this would be done, just kind of thinking out loud here is all I’m doing.

[Guest]

and then wouldn't that be a great place to deposit money stolen from farmers, (i.e. railroad cap money , grain grading overcharges, cwb equity ,lol, etc., etc.) since its to hard to give it back to us

[farmaholic]

So a $90+K employee of SAF uses the analogy of buying/using an old farm truck to a new farm truck with all the bells and whistles and improvements to using old versus new varieties of wheat(or what ever) seed.

But I wonder if this genius would like to pay the vehicle manufacturer of his ride a yearly royalty for the "right" to drive it? .....even after he bought and paid for it!

[westernvicki]

I think the farm organizations need to come together and explore options. After all they gave the CWB away for free.. maybe they will give away the plant breeding program for the same?

If not well indeed there is a lot of farmer cash begging for an investment.

[bucket]

I think the farm organizations need to come together and explore options. After all they gave the CWB away for free.. maybe they will give away the plant breeding program for the same?

If not well indeed there is a lot of farmer cash begging for an investment.

I would gladly donate my saskpulse checkoff to a farmer coop seed company.....then have one umbrella group called saskeverything....have good reps for each commodity asking for traits required from the seedCo. .....


There is an incredible amount of administration money wasted for each commodity.. maybe since everyone thinks farms should consolidate so should the checkoff groups. ...

Good reps would see the value of plant breeding for flax and other minor crops and maybe ask the question like " is there value in flax straw genetics that can be used in cereals rather than using the chemical manipulator? "

[TOM4CWB]

Hi Vicki;
This is seed royalty issue... is 100% in the control of plant breeders/cos right now.[look at Canola and private varieties today] PBR is the law now... PERIOD. UPOV 78 and 91 gives PBR legal teeth.
We are being distracted... an easier more 'palatable' contractual system... is already enforceable...[Again PBR]
Seed Synergy... is really about the administrative cost... of maintaining a varieties 'stock seed' distribution function... [Breeder seed [seed lots] till the variety is in commercial growers ownership for seed multiplication ] ... the 'value add'... should be about how to LOWER ADMINISTRATIVE COST TO INTRODUCE NEW VARIETIES and maintain genetic purity on present good varieties of planting seed. AGAIN... PLANT BREEDERS/Seed Co's HAVE EXISTING Plant Breeders Registration...PBR... LAW TO COLLECT... WHATEVER .... THEY CHOOSE [BREEDERS/Seed Co's]... THROUGH ... CONTRACTS [available to them NOW...IF THEY WANT] ...[just like canola and private varieties that require new planting seed each year]
WE SHOULD BE WORKING ON ... LOWERING OVERHEAD COSTS[TO COMMERCIAL GRAIN PRODUCTION ULTIMATELY... TO BECOME MORE COMPETITIVE... INTERNATIONALLY ON GLOBAL FRONT.
Cheers! Merry Christmas!!

being

All I am saying, I am a pragmatist; this process is coming, the producer meetings are necessary to justify the transition, & so the questions I ask is:
What are the terms we want in return. & Who is negotiating for the producers?

I am a seed grower, I have a bias, I believe new genetics are important. Defining the terms of this agreement is all we have. And we should step in.

And so, what are our terms:

Better data is big.

Revenue matching with governments for sure.

Tax credits.

An independent committee to insure process is fair, accountable, & as free from conflict of interest and undue influence as can possibly be in an integrated world. Not all farmers, & industry, independent financial and legal folk.

What is the future of public plant breeders? How do they award varieties in a manner that is accountable, transparent and address the issue of potential for conflict of interest.
The anti on new varieties will increase: a process must be defined. Who decides where these genetics end up?

The Limagrain examples, on the table or not?


All, I suggest that we define what is being negotiated and who is negotiating producer terms, associations need to weigh in with meeting during crop week. Get their hands dirty, and negotiate for producers.

Are we at the table or are we not? Ask your associations reps to call a meeting in January at Crop show to define.

[TOM4CWB]

Bucket...
I Believe...
People have been sidetracked!!!

As I wrote below to Vicki; I reiterate again:

"This seed royalty issue... is 100% in the control of plant breeders/cos right now.[look at Canola and private varieties today] PBR is the law now... PERIOD. UPOV 78 and 91 gives PBR legal teeth.
We are being distracted... an easier more 'palatable' contractual system... is already enforceable...[Again PBR]
Seed Synergy... is really about the administrative cost... of maintaining a varieties 'stock seed' distribution function... [Breeder seed [seed lots] till the variety is in commercial growers ownership for seed multiplication ] ... the 'value add'... should be about how to LOWER ADMINISTRATIVE COST TO INTRODUCE NEW VARIETIES and maintain genetic purity on present good varieties of planting seed. AGAIN... PLANT BREEDERS/Seed Co's HAVE EXISTING Plant Breeders Registration...PBR... LAW TO COLLECT... WHATEVER .... THEY CHOOSE [BREEDERS/Seed Co's]... THROUGH ... CONTRACTS [available to them NOW...IF THEY WANT] ...[just like canola and private varieties that require new planting seed each year]
WE SHOULD BE WORKING ON ... LOWERING OVERHEAD COSTS[TO COMMERCIAL GRAIN PRODUCTION ULTIMATELY... TO BECOME MORE COMPETITIVE... INTERNATIONALLY ON GLOBAL FRONT.
Cheers! Merry Christmas!!"

Please do not get sidetracked... and miss the real opportunity to become more profitable!! Cheers!!

I hope to hear from the people that went to the meeting in Saskatoon on December 4.....

I was disappointed. ...


Comments....

[TOM4CWB]

BTW... SECAN is a member owned non-profit seed organisation... tthat plows back in 100% of revenues... to plant breeding... every year.

Hi Vicki;
This is seed royalty issue... is 100% in the control of plant breeders/cos right now.[look at Canola and private varieties today] PBR is the law now... PERIOD. UPOV 78 and 91 gives PBR legal teeth.
We are being distracted... an easier more 'palatable' contractual system... is already enforceable...[Again PBR]
Seed Synergy... is really about the administrative cost... of maintaining a varieties 'stock seed' distribution function... [Breeder seed [seed lots] till the variety is in commercial growers ownership for seed multiplication ] ... the 'value add'... should be about how to LOWER ADMINISTRATIVE COST TO INTRODUCE NEW VARIETIES and maintain genetic purity on present good varieties of planting seed. AGAIN... PLANT BREEDERS/Seed Co's HAVE EXISTING Plant Breeders Registration...PBR... LAW TO COLLECT... WHATEVER .... THEY CHOOSE [BREEDERS/Seed Co's]... THROUGH ... CONTRACTS [available to them NOW...IF THEY WANT] ...[just like canola and private varieties that require new planting seed each year]
WE SHOULD BE WORKING ON ... LOWERING OVERHEAD COSTS[TO COMMERCIAL GRAIN PRODUCTION ULTIMATELY... TO BECOME MORE COMPETITIVE... INTERNATIONALLY ON GLOBAL FRONT.
Cheers! Merry Christmas!!

being

[bucket]

BTW... SECAN is a member owned non-profit seed organisation... tthat plows back in 100% of revenues... to plant breeding... every year.

SECAN....member owned as in who?

Commercial run of the mill farmers?

or seed growers that are salesmen of the varieties they pick without due diligence or responsibility to their customers?

There is a difference in a seed grower and a farmer.....

It pissed me off that seed growers stacked the meeting in Saskatoon on this royalty issue.

[makar]

This is pissing me off so bad i may seed the whole farm to ollie barley.

[Guest]

This is pissing me off so bad i may seed the whole farm to ollie barley.

then they will just deregister it if it isn't already , lol

[jimmy]

Got a question for you guys that where at meetings. I found a old variety of wheat that’s been around for over a thousand years and it’s been yielding as good as the new stuff out there only disadvantage is it has to be swathed because of uneven maturity and lodging. I sell it into the feed market and buyer really likes it. Question is will I have to pay a royalties on it? I am not organic will organic producers have to pay royalties on the heritage wheats they grow? Some of its been around since the pyramids were built. Will this grain be forbidden to grow?

[TOM4CWB]

Hi Jimmy,
No you will not be required to pay any 'seed tax' or royalties on older public varieties. Deregistered Varieties can still also. without 'seed tax', be grown... as Canada Feed... and milled into baking products without restriction as well.
It was only contemplated that 'Plant Breeder Rights' [PBR] registered varieties... are the only ones new 'seed tax' royalties can be applied to.
I am going to work on Stopping the deregistration of our heritage cereal grains.
Cheers

Got a question for you guys that where at meetings. I found a old variety of wheat that’s been around for over a thousand years and it’s been yielding as good as the new stuff out there only disadvantage is it has to be swathed because of uneven maturity and lodging. I sell it into the feed market and buyer really likes it. Question is will I have to pay a royalties on it? I am not organic will organic producers have to pay royalties on the heritage wheats they grow? Some of its been around since the pyramids were built. Will this grain be forbidden to grow?

[bucket]

Hi Jimmy,
No you will not be required to pay any 'seed tax' or royalties on older public varieties. Deregistered Varieties can still also. without 'seed tax', be grown... as Canada Feed... and milled into baking products without restriction as well.
It was only contemplated that 'Plant Breeder Rights' [PBR] registered varieties... are the only ones new 'seed tax' royalties can be applied to.
I am going to work on Stopping the deregistration of our heritage cereal grains.
Cheers

No variety should be deregistered or reclassified without as much due diligence as it took to register and stay in the system...

The CWRS varieties that took years of development and testing took the swipe of a pen to move to CNHR...

Where is the older canola varieties like Quest or Q2 or Quantum....etc or just plain old open pollinated conventional canola....


Publicly bred and corporately deregistered.....