Comments from seed royalty meeting

[bucket]

I wish I could think faster and process what I heard yesterday (dec 4) and go to the meeting in Edmonton....

I am not necessarily against the fact that royalties would provide better varieties....but when I take the blinders off and look at the big picture ...growing more or better quality doesn't guarantee me a better net to my farm....

As long as as all options are presented and their downstream effects ....

As an example if you are a government person qualifying the term "high performing varieties" as yield and quality.....then you had better take a hard look at the implications of such a statement....the physical infrastructure in Canada isn't prepared for higher volumes ....and no one is buying high quality....

The government officials want the farmers in canada to be leaders.....well guess what the Russian government is building infrastructure to move ag commodities....Canada isn't keeping pace and if they are its government funded so why not fund ag research as well....


Secondly, like one guy mentioned, if a multinational seed developer builds a variety in Canada for Canada using our wheat commission checkoff funding ....then if they take the variety halfway around the world ...I don't really like my checkoff dollars competing against me in a country that the government supports ag producers better with no royalty or checkoffs..

Short story is Canada doesn't value Agriculture or investment in it....

If Bombardier can extract billions for high tech jobs that end up moving out with AIRBUS....maybe the government should discuss the fact the land in Canada isn't moving away and its a better investment....

[grassfarmer]

I wish I could think faster and process what I heard yesterday (dec 4) and go to the meeting in Edmonton....

I know what you mean bucket been in that situation many times. Bottom line is you are not going to win in a controlled agenda meeting format like that though. If as I suggested you can mobilize 100+ farmers to go to the next meeting - take it over by rearranging the seating and call some media ahead of time and tell them to expect some fireworks. That works, I've witnessed it in the past. If you can't mobilize 100 farmers then I guess it isn't an important issue - at least that's the message we're sending.

[bucket]

I was late so I just went to the front where there is always chairs...there wasn't a seating arrangement but I think the seed growers had a plan to be at different tables to ensure their voice was heard. ...

[bucket]

zero news about the meeting from what I tried to find so far....30 million a year from farmers....its not news????

nothing to see here folks....

[SASKFARMER3]

Yep thirty million and they spend 20 so rest goes to telling gov what they need and it’s morr money.

This is a utter joke.

Driving Canadian farms to third world farms one program at a time. Soon we’ll be cutting pennies in half to make a buck.

But let’s have a great seed industry in canada with no producers.

Let’s create with our money new varieties and then sell them to the world so they can grow.

And undercut us

[macdon02]

Yep thirty million and they spend 20 so rest goes to telling gov what they need and it’s morr money.

This is a utter joke.

Driving Canadian farms to third world farms one program at a time. Soon we’ll be cutting pennies in half to make a buck.

But let’s have a great seed industry in canada with no producers.

Let’s create with our money new varieties and then sell them to the world so they can grow.

And undercut us

There'll be GST on it ....

[bucket]

This will go through and then they will focus on the livestock industry for royalties on bulls and cows....why not....its an easy sell job when you have divided farmers on issues...

[macdon02]

This will go through and then they will focus on the livestock industry for royalties on bulls and cows....why not....its an easy sell job when you have divided farmers on issues...

Ever walk into a poker game and wonder which one of these idiots is getting fleeced tonight? If it isn't plain obvious in the first 15 seconds.... it's you. The Fed's have tried to go after cap gains, "the 1% must pay", they see a giant pool of assets in an unorganized group. They are bleeding enough on oil royalties the provinces are stepping in. Can't go after cars. The banks pay too well to go after. Guess what, its primary ag that's gonna pay. Like ducks in a barrel and the public will back them because we are driving shiny iron and shiny yards, tax breaks everywhere. There's no other sector they can go after ....

[westernvicki]

I am a seed grower. I came in late and also sat at the front.

The debate on seed has been all of my life. But as a result of being a seed grower I have developed a respect for what I can do to achieve: incremental gain. A little better yield, a little better durability on quality, due to seed quality or attributes like stand ability, sprouting resistance, shatter, colour. From I lifetime of experience and 44 crops I have won and I have lost, nothing if for certain, except death and taxes. I find my quest for knowlege on varieties to acheive incremental gain has led to a I lobby for better data. We need better information on varietal performance. Better follow up on tests results, like seed quality in a bad year, standability in the snow, and yes this was a bad year, but a good year to gauge seed & weathering quality on varieties.

So many things we can and should do better.

The world is rapidly changing, seed technology is rapidly changing, it will take money to keep up, how much, well indeed nothing is free.

In AU, GOV & industry contribute not just farmers.

This is what I see:

Challenge government for matching money for seed royalty, the should anti up and if they do they will have an vested interest in insuring fees do not sky rocket.

Challenge government to set up a process of seed variety tender that is transparent and accountable as indeed the potential for conflict of interest and undue influence is real. The committee to award all varieties from public institutions should include fair and sound minds, at least one non farm lawyer, a non farm accountant, like Federated Coop reach beyond the farm for intellectual capital.

Make seed royalty a tax credit as it is used for research purposes it should be a tax credit.

Better Data: if we are going to pay more for varieties, then we need to have better data. Standardize variety tests, do agronomic and functionality, annual & averaged data, available by plot and by aggregate. Contract the process, data needs to be at arms length to plant breeders and the seed trade. Make it mandatory to be part of check off that you are in the program, and that some of the cost is supported by % of check off earned.

Many sectors of the industry benefit from seed, and yields, including elevators, part of the contribution of the delivery system is free administration.


Should we ask, why a nation will support dairy and poultry and dump beef, hogs and crops, of course, and so at the very least we need to ask for this to be done right, & for contribution. The world is increasingly more competitive, it has only just begun to show its face, We need efficient, competitive, transparent, accountable, a process of not just more money but better use of that money.

And we should ask: why not a farmer owned seed company like Limagrain?
Limagrain is highly successful the blue print is there.

Dare to find a solution.

[furrowtickler]

Ever walk into a poker game and wonder which one of these idiots is getting fleeced tonight? If it isn't plain obvious in the first 15 seconds.... it's you. The Fed's have tried to go after cap gains, "the 1% must pay", they see a giant pool of assets in an unorganized group. They are bleeding enough on oil royalties the provinces are stepping in. Can't go after cars. The banks pay too well to go after. Guess what, its primary ag that's gonna pay. Like ducks in a barrel and the public will back them because we are driving shiny iron and shiny yards, tax breaks everywhere. There's no other sector they can go after ....

Very true , we are like a turtle flipped on its back .
Although they could go after the real estate market, but the would kill their base in Vancouver and The GTA

[bucket]

Thanks westernvicki


There are some good ideas but this why I think farmers need more time to digest the info....it can't be all about money....the data is actually more important to you as a seed grower because if you can pick up on minor issues prior to a larger release to commercial growers then it becomes a more palatable because it delivers better value to a run of the mill dumb****led farmer like me.....


I will let you give the breeders shit for the garbage you are given to work with.....

But that's the purpose of seed growers ...to provide value to commercial growers much like the breeders are to supply you with good seed to multiply...

The next step is to figure out the logistics to owning a seed company like or to compete with Limagrain....I suspect you have some good insights to that as well. ...

[westernvicki]

I think the first step would be a meeting with the ag associations at crop show.

[farmaholic]

I am a seed grower.

Better Data: if we are going to pay more for varieties, then we need to have better data. Standardize variety tests, do agronomic and functionality, annual & averaged data, available by plot and by aggregate. Contract the process, data needs to be at arms length to plant breeders and the seed trade. Make it mandatory to be part of check off that you are in the program, and that some of the cost is supported by % of check off earned.

Ummm, has anyone seen any data from canola trials that are worth looking at? That is the model we are headed for in wheat! There is a plethora of canola varieties and the Provincial Seed Guides seem to barely scratch the surface or fall woefully short of meaningful comparison. Each SeedCo will promote their varieties as superior in one way or another, likely without any real competitive trials, nothing but Company propaganda that will have to be weighed against farmer's anecdotal evidence....from across various Prairie soil zones. Junk varieties with "silver bullet" promises are going to get pushed onto to market without adequate vetting. They're all going to be getting their ransom.

What are my guarantees I'm not getting an agronomic dud or will be growing a market destroying vatiety?

I suppose I won't have any rights....

Read the fine print, the Devil is in the details, right Tom4Himself!!!!

[westernvicki]

Ummm, has anyone seen any data from canola trials that are worth looking at? That is the model we are headed for in wheat! There is a plethora of canola varieties and the Provincial Seed Guides seem to barely scratch the surface or fall woefully short of meaningful comparison. Each SeedCo will promote their varieties as superior in one way or another, likely without any real competitive trials, nothing but Company propaganda that will have to be weighed against farmer's anecdotal evidence....from across various Prairie soil zones. Junk varieties with "silver bullet" promises are going to get pushed onto to market without adequate vetting. They're all going to be getting their ransom.


Exactly the reason why we need to define as producers what we want from variety tests: a process: independent, standardized, replicated, list of factors, agronomic, functionality, seed quality, and follow the variety into commercialization to rate the performance. Head to head data. Tendered.

Will it take more money, you bet. An investment in the data that is necessary to justify spending more money on a variety. Producer money well spent.

There are better models in the world, but we define a list that works for us.

https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/NorthCentralREC/variety-trial

http://plantsciences.montana.edu/mtproducerinfo.html

You want in on EPR revenue put your variety to the test.

[westernvicki]

All I am saying, I am a pragmatist; this process is coming, the producer meetings are necessary to justify the transition, & so the questions I ask is:
What are the terms we want in return. & Who is negotiating for the producers?

I am a seed grower, I have a bias, I believe new genetics are important. Defining the terms of this agreement is all we have. And we should step in.

And so, what are our terms:

Better data is big.

Revenue matching with governments for sure.

Tax credits.

An independent committee to insure process is fair, accountable, & as free from conflict of interest and undue influence as can possibly be in an integrated world. Not all farmers, & industry, independent financial and legal folk.

What is the future of public plant breeders? How do they award varieties in a manner that is accountable, transparent and address the issue of potential for conflict of interest.
The anti on new varieties will increase: a process must be defined. Who decides where these genetics end up?

The Limagrain examples, on the table or not?


All, I suggest that we define what is being negotiated and who is negotiating producer terms, associations need to weigh in with meeting during crop week. Get their hands dirty, and negotiate for producers.

Are we at the table or are we not? Ask your associations reps to call a meeting in January at Crop show to define.