$3.3 Million ! Stop the effing madness !

[biglentil]

Oh wow 3.3 million$ what a huge figure! Until you put it in context of their overall budget.
Put in farmer terms your operating budget is $1.4 million for the year - and that $3300 carbon tax is going to ruin you....yeah, I don't think so.

$3300 ya right! That would not even cover the carbon tax on the fuel, let alone fertilizer, chemical, equipment.......

Your tax is coming too pal! Lots of chatter about a meat tax coming.

[GDR]

Hmm, which is the cost that is out of hand? As the other poster said - a $3.30 levy on a $1400 calf or $5700 for a handful of wires on a $25,000 tractor? You're all barking up the wrong tree with how the cost of a carbon tax is going to break you.

Good news, you shouldn't buy that wiring harness anyway. I would assume you are buying a new loader tractor for close to 200 grand since its more fuel efficient than the old one, even the few hours a year you use it should pay for itself in no time on the fraction of better fuel economy your getting. Its the only responsible thing to do with your never ending crusade, cant imagine it any other way.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Hmm, which is the cost that is out of hand? As the other poster said - a $3.30 levy on a $1400 calf or $5700 for a handful of wires on a $25,000 tractor? You're all barking up the wrong tree with how the cost of a carbon tax is going to break you.

First, the carbon tax at these rates(these rates are a starting point, no where near the intended rates) are not going to break farmers, especially as a farmer where many of the direct costs are exempt.

The bigger issue isn't farmers who have no choice in the matter, it is virtually every other business who have the option of starting, moving or expanding in virtually any jurisdiction in the world. They already are, and will only continue to chose to move or set up or expand in places with business friendly policies, Canada has clearly signalled that we are openly hostile to business and the jobs and revenue it creates. The carbon tax is only one of many additional costs which Canadian businesses incur due to incompetent overbearing socialist governments and their misguided policies. In some cases, this is simply the straw that breaks the camels back, especially when current governments have been very clear that the carbon tax rates are only going to increase, as are energy costs, and regulation compliance costs, and as more and more businesses are forced out, the remaining businesses will inevitably face an increasing tax bill to fill the void. Soon the only revenue sources remaining will be those unable to move to business friendly environments, such as farmers, loggers, miners etc. And of course, public institutions, and other levels of government, as in the example at the start of the thread. And the current administration is likely so financially incompetent that they believe taxing school boards is generating wealth.

[grassfarmer]

First, the carbon tax at these rates(these rates are a starting point, no where near the intended rates) are not going to break farmers.....

Exactly - and they aren't going to break anyone else either. As they increase it'll start to make people think and then they will cut back on their emissions. It'll work as intended just as surely as increasing taxes on cigarettes has done.

[chuckChuck]

Climate change has huge costs for current and future generations. But don't try to tell that to the those who don't believe in climate science or evidence.

I will give you two examples and there are many many more examples of our wastefulness and stupidity. People across the country line up at the Tim Horton's and other crappy food joints in their cars, SUVs and trucks by the tens of thousands every day with their engines running, polluting the air in every city because they can't stop and get out of their vehicle or make their own coffee and food at home or at work.

How often do we see diesel trucks running for a full hockey game at the local rink belching diesel fumes? Idling is bad for the engine and bad for the air.

If many many people are willing to waste a finite valuable resource that has obvious negative consequences with out care and thought for the consequences, it is pretty obvious that fossil energy is still too cheap.

Four of the top five selling vehicles in Canada so far in 2018 are the heavily marketed and very very profitable Ford, RAM and GM trucks. They are the new over priced luxury vehicle of choice of many people who have absolutely no reason to own a truck except they have been upsold a lifestyle.

Many people are living beyond their means, are overspending and going into excessive debt to own an impractical vehicle. Obviously fuel is still too cheap! And yet many of these same people will complain like hell about the carbon tax.

[Guest]

Exactly - and they aren't going to break anyone else either. As they increase it'll start to make people think and then they will cut back on their emissions. It'll work as intended just as surely as increasing taxes on cigarettes has done.

You compare eating , living , heating a house to cigarette smoking ??????? Unf&$kingbelievable?....

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Exactly - and they aren't going to break anyone else either. As they increase it'll start to make people think and then they will cut back on their emissions. It'll work as intended just as surely as increasing taxes on cigarettes has done.

And what most industries will think, (and what appears to be the intention of the current administration), is to move to jurisdictions without insane anti-business policies and taxes. Most won't wait until they are bankrupt to see the writing on the wall, are you aware of the exodus of industry out of central Canada lately? They will most certainly cut back on their emissions in Canada, by moving them elsewhere, for a net neutral effect.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Climate change has huge costs for current and future generations. But don't try to tell that to the those who don't believe in climate science or evidence.

You made a couple of typo's in that sentence, I fixed it for you below.
Climate change has huge benefits for current and future generations. But don't try to tell that to the those who don't believe in () science or evidence.

Climate
I will give you two examples and there are many many more examples of our wastefulness and stupidity. People across the country line up at the Tim Horton's and other crappy food joints in their cars, SUVs and trucks by the tens of thousands every day with their engines running, polluting the air in every city because they can't stop and get out of their vehicle or make their own coffee and food at home or at work.

How often do we see diesel trucks running for a full hockey game at the local rink belching diesel fumes? Idling is bad for the engine and bad for the air.

If many many people are willing to waste a finite valuable resource that has obvious negative consequences with out care and thought for the consequences, it is pretty obvious that fossil energy is still too cheap.

Four of the top five selling vehicles in Canada so far in 2018 are the heavily marketed and very very profitable Ford, RAM and GM trucks. They are the new over priced luxury vehicle of choice of many people who have absolutely no reason to own a truck except they have been upsold a lifestyle.

Many people are living beyond their means, are overspending and going into excessive debt to own an impractical vehicle. Obviously fuel is still too cheap! And yet many of these same people will complain like hell about the carbon tax.

We are on the same page here, there are massive wasteful discretionary uses of energy by consumers. And while it does have the unintended benefit of releasing beneficial CO2 in the process, it otherwise adds nothing to our economy, consumes a finite resource, releases actual pollutants, costs massive tax dollars to build and maintain the roads they drive on and drives up healthcare costs due high rates of accidents, all for no valid reason in many cases.

That said, I think there are better ways to discourage discretionary fossil fuel consumption that doesn't also affect non discretionary fossil fuel consumption, which also just so happens to be what drives our economy, and allows life to be possible in a cold sparse country with an economy based on resource extraction.

In your attempt to control the behaviour of pickup truck driving soccer moms and fast food consumers, you are also punishing every industry that provides jobs and taxes and contributes to GDP, and the fixed income grandmother who would like to heat her home, and the institutions who also operate on tax dollars. The collateral damage far far outweighs the intended target of your misguided policy.

[chuckChuck]

Some cold countries and regions may see some benefits in a warming climate but most will not. A hotter and drier summer in the southern and central great plains regions of north america will likely hurt crop yields. The northern areas may benefit. But the losses in the south and central will not be covered by increases in the north.

A rapidly warming arctic leads to weaker jet streams that may lead to long blocking patterns of the wrong type of weather, intensifying cold and wet periods or hot and dry periods. I think we have experienced some of those intensified blocking patterns in the last decade.

I am glad we agree on some things about waste.

I think governments can protect industries that face competitive disadvantages because of carbon pricing with properly designed policy. Almost every industry is trying to reduce energy use and become more efficient regardless of a carbon tax. A carbon tax just speeds the process up.

[fjlip]

Some cold countries and regions may see some benefits in a warming climate but most will not. A hotter and drier summer in the southern and central great plains regions of north america will likely hurt crop yields. The northern areas may benefit. But the losses in the south and central will not be covered by increases in the north. All GUESSES MODELS, there is NO PROOF!

A rapidly warming arctic leads to weaker jet streams that may lead to long blocking patterns of the wrong type of weather, intensifying cold and wet periods or hot and dry periods. I think we have experienced some of those intensified blocking patterns in the last decade. How about the 30's, how about Midevil Warm period, has happened before, total waste of man's time and energy to even talk about this topic!

I am glad we agree on some things about waste.

I think governments can protect industries that face competitive disadvantages because of carbon pricing with properly designed policy. Almost every industry is trying to reduce energy use and become more efficient regardless of a carbon tax. A carbon tax just speeds the process up. How will rebating all if not MORE than you pay accomplish anything?

Oh so smart and reasonable...