Absolute Foolishness - Chuck and Grass You'll probably agree with me.

[wd9]

I think someone out there doesn't understand the technical definition of work. Can a computer perform work, or is 100 % of the energy converted to heat?

Considering this discussion is all about energy, shouldn't it be understood where its going?

[jazz]

chuck, try following true tech innovators and not those liberal govt shills you admire so much.

https://www.businessinsider.com/kurzweil-says-free-solar-energy-20-years-2014-9 Solar Energy Will Be Unlimited And Free In 20 Years

[seldomseen]

chuck, try following true tech innovators and not those liberal govt shills you admire so much.

https://www.businessinsider.com/kurzweil-says-free-solar-energy-20-years-2014-9 Solar Energy Will Be Unlimited And Free In 20 Years

That guy sounds just like my science teacher in 1976 except maybe not quite as optimistic. My teacher thought about 5 years!

[furrowtickler]

So this Proust going to get nailed with carbon tax or not ?? Where are the protesters for this climate killing project??

[Hamloc]

So you think utilities are going to give away their solar power for free! LMAO

Tier 1 panels come with 20 - 25 year performance guarantees in the 80 - 85% range. The actual life of panels will be longer.

Panels will be cheaper and more efficient in the future so replacing panels will cost less down the road.

So I am curious, in Alberta a roof mount grid tie system is $2.60 per installed watt and a ground mount system is $3.20 per installed watt. I use roughly 20000 kwh per year so I need a roughly 15000 watt installation to roughly produce what I consume in a year at present. Due to the layout of my yard I would install a ground mount system which would cost $3.20 x 15000=$48000. Using your figures of 6.9 cents a watt the panels would produce $1380 per year of electricity. $48000/$1380=34.78 years. Hmmm, that is longer than the lifespan of the panels. Chuck2 what is your installation costing per watt? Keep in mind I did not include financing costs or replacement of the inverter which is only supposed to last 10-15 years.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Considering this discussion is all about energy, shouldn't it be understood where its going?

According to google, basically all of the energy is eventually converted to heat.

Actually, almost everything ends up in heat. By the law of Conservation of energy, all the energy (which is power multiplied by time) has to end up somewhere. Almost all processes inside a computer end up turning the energy into heat, directly or indirectly. For example, the fan will turn energy into moving air (=kinetic energy), however the moving air will be stopped by friction with the surrounding air, which will turn its kinetic energy into heat.

The same goes for things like radiation (light from the monitor, EM radiation from all electrical components) and sound (noises, sound from loudspeakers) a computer produces: They too will be absorbed and transformed into heat.

If you read of a "percentage" that ends up in heat, that may have referred to the power supply alone. The power supply should indeed turn a large percentage of its input into electrical power, not into heat (though it does produce some heat as well). This energy will then be turned into heat by the rest of the computer :-).

[Klause]

According to google, basically all of the energy is eventually converted to heat.

Actually, almost everything ends up in heat. By the law of Conservation of energy, all the energy (which is power multiplied by time) has to end up somewhere. Almost all processes inside a computer end up turning the energy into heat, directly or indirectly. For example, the fan will turn energy into moving air (=kinetic energy), however the moving air will be stopped by friction with the surrounding air, which will turn its kinetic energy into heat.

The same goes for things like radiation (light from the monitor, EM radiation from all electrical components) and sound (noises, sound from loudspeakers) a computer produces: They too will be absorbed and transformed into heat.

If you read of a "percentage" that ends up in heat, that may have referred to the power supply alone. The power supply should indeed turn a large percentage of its input into electrical power, not into heat (though it does produce some heat as well). This energy will then be turned into heat by the rest of the computer :-).

Not quite true.


My numbers came from formulas used for calculating heat dissipation requirements in data centers, embedded electronics, etc.


A Bitcoin farm has no monitors no speakers...

Just like a radio antenna... It transmits information and uses a lot of power but doesn't produce heat.


Or an electric motor... It produces heat yet moves things or does things. A computer has fans, a hard drive (well most don't anymore but for simplicity)


There's a lot more to it than it's all heat.

If your laptop uses 300w, and turned that all to hear you wouldn't be able to touch it. (Think 300w oil pan heater).

[biglentil]

Not quite true.


My numbers came from formulas used for calculating heat dissipation requirements in data centers, embedded electronics, etc.


A Bitcoin farm has no monitors no speakers...

Just like a radio antenna... It transmits information and uses a lot of power but doesn't produce heat.


Or an electric motor... It produces heat yet moves things or does things. A computer has fans, a hard drive (well most don't anymore but for simplicity)


There's a lot more to it than it's all heat.

If your laptop uses 300w, and turned that all to hear you wouldn't be able to touch it. (Think 300w oil pan heater).

Laptops have fans Klause, all the electricity gets converted into heat. 100%

[farming101]

And information,
And the power to control machines

which is what it's all about.

If the information validating a bitcoin is lost so is the bitcoin
Here's an example: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/bitcoin-value-james-howells-newport-landfill-hard-drive-campbell-simpson-laszlo-hanyecz-a8091371.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/bitcoin-value-james-howells-newport-landfill-hard-drive-campbell-simpson-laszlo-hanyecz-a8091371.html

If bitcoin becomes worthless and the miners haven't converted it to another asset or currency that has value then all the mining and burning of resources was for nothing

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Not quite true.


My numbers came from formulas used for calculating heat dissipation requirements in data centers, embedded electronics, etc.


A Bitcoin farm has no monitors no speakers...

Just like a radio antenna... It transmits information and uses a lot of power but doesn't produce heat.


Or an electric motor... It produces heat yet moves things or does things. A computer has fans, a hard drive (well most don't anymore but for simplicity)


There's a lot more to it than it's all heat.

If your laptop uses 300w, and turned that all to hear you wouldn't be able to touch it. (Think 300w oil pan heater).

Can you perform an energy balance on a room full of servers? Electricity in and heat out, what else is missing?

[Klause]

Can you perform an energy balance on a room full of servers? Electricity in and heat out, what else is missing?

Everything around the servers.


There's a lot more to a datacenter than just the computer. This bitcoin mine doesn't use 63Mw to compute with.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Everything around the servers.


There's a lot more to a datacenter than just the computer. This bitcoin mine doesn't use 63Mw to compute with.

[ATTACH]3411[/ATTACH]

Look at the room itself. Energy in has to equal energy out.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Look at the room itself. Energy in has to equal energy out.

I neglected to include accumulation, if a bitcoin could accumulate energy and store it, then E in can be greater than E out. How else can energy leave the room, except as heat?

[wd9]

Laptops have fans Klause, all the electricity gets converted into heat. 100%

We have a winner!