A picture to challenge some preconceptions

[Klause]

Klause, thanks for posting, this is the first I had heard of this. Very good news for agriculture and humanity in general. But closer to home, this isn't good at all for western Canadian farmers, most of whom can't grow corn or soybeans. It means we may eventually ( or maybe much sooner) be competing with corn that is grown without the additional expense of N fertilization, while our crops nearly all need copious amounts of N. I doubt that canola, or barley and other minor crops in the world wide scheme will be high on the priority list of crops to try to make this N fixation work.

Well...

This is where it gets tricky... There is a lot more to soil biology than adding copious amounts of fertilizer.

There's a group of us getting pretty good at growing high yielding clean lower input crops.

Small grains are big business in the rest of the world... And keep in mind that non-gmo canola in Europe and south America (and the US) are yielding far above the pioneer / DeKalb / Bayer offerings in Canada.

We live on an island when it comes to agronomca and varoetal development


Saaten-Union has high yielding hybrid wheats that are n efficient... Need half of normal nitrogen (what we call normal) to produce the same bushels


They supply to Russia and Ukraine as well as Europe. How do you think Russia became the world's largest wheat exporter so fast?

Unless we open our eyes and adapt quickly (and kick some of these seed companies in the behind) we will be permanently left on the sidelines.

[farmaholic]

If the SeedCos can capture the $'s spent on nitrogen fertilizer you spend on canola or wheat....they will "research" to see if they can make it happen...do the math, it would be astronomical.

[Klause]

If the SeedCos can capture the $'s spent on nitrogen fertilizer you spend on canola or wheat....they will "research" to see if they can make it happen...do the math, it would be astronomical.

This is why we need a robust public breeding program.

In the US land-grant universities are leading the charge on this file.

But the trained seals are all for destroying the public system .

[bucket]

This is why we need a robust public breeding program.

In the US land-grant universities are leading the charge on this file.

But the trained seals are all for destroying the public system .

Sadly the trained seals are the ones representing us at every turn....

Not only to they clap on command... they also bark as required and to the tune they are played ...

[grassfarmer]

When we were contemplating going organic, one issue which convinced me out of it was when I calculated how many cattle would be required to make full use of cover crops and rotations on this many acres. In order to make the system as sustainable as possible, and maximize income, copious amounts of livestock were a necessity.

Is that a drawback or an opportunity though? The guy with this corn crop cut back acres - he is making more off 1000 acres now than he was with 2800 previously. Instead of trying to figure out how to buy land in an overpriced market how about selling some and making more money off reduced acres? More livestock on the land keeps more people on the land, more people on the land = healthier rural communities.

[foragefarmer]

Grass

" More livestock on the land keeps more people on the land, more people on the land = healthier rural communities."

So true, but the fact of the matter is less and less farmers are wanting to raise cattle. In my option cow calf farmer are in many cases the strong hold of family farms. BSE unfortunately eliminate many cow calf operations, which will never return .

As for factory hog barns most sit in the middle of a quarter with no other buildings in sight own by feed meals and packing plants.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Is that a drawback or an opportunity though? The guy with this corn crop cut back acres - he is making more off 1000 acres now than he was with 2800 previously. Instead of trying to figure out how to buy land in an overpriced market how about selling some and making more money off reduced acres? More livestock on the land keeps more people on the land, more people on the land = healthier rural communities.

Except, that is not a problem we have here, more people than ever, more quarter section part time farmers than the rest put together, plus acreages, subdivisions, multiple homes per yard site. I would guess there are more people on the land here now than any time in the past.

Another piece of the puzzle for us, is that my better half doesn't want to be married to cows every day of the year for the rest of our lives. It may take more acres to make the same living off of grain, but for less work, and have more to show for it at the end, ie the investment in land. If my kids want to be cattle farmers, or I could partner with a neighbor, I would love to have hundreds of cattle integrated into the operation. But as is, the goal is to get rid of the remaining cattle.

[hobbyfrmr]

[QUOTE=Klause;389111]Exactly.


We're burning fossil fuels to replace a resource that makes up 75% of the atmosphere. .. something plants are very capable of doing themselves all te while mining the soil of nutrients that are finite.


But we call it progressive agriculture.
“All the while allowing industry to take more and more profit from us every year.”

All the while allowing industry to take more and more profit from us every year.”
You nailed it Klause.
Everybody knows you cant grow a crop without fertilizer and spray.
Some guys can’t affort not to grow canola.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Exactly.


We're burning fossil fuels to replace a resource that makes up 75% of the atmosphere. .. something plants are very capable of doing themselves all te while mining the soil of nutrients that are finite.

The nitrogen problem is easily solved, with cover crops, rotations, and potential new developments such as N fixing mentioned here. Mining the remainder of the finite nutrients is the issue that no one in the organic community wants to address. Until we close the loop on the PKS and micronutrient cycles, no form of ag is sustainable. Shipping our products globally, from farms that are increasingly only crops or only livestock, plus populations centers getting larger are all getting us further from that.

[Sheepwheat]

Interesting thread. Would not alfalfa in the rotation aid in the feasibility of this system? Hay always has some value. And it is so good for the land, recycling deep nutrients that are inaccessible to annual shallow rooted crops.

[wd9]

Good thing the only thing plants need is nitrogen. Problem solved.

[furrowtickler]

Chop 1/2 your N bill , application costs , extra large equipment needed at seeding ....
I don’t think it’s a bad thing lol
Then one can focus a bit more on phos and micros .

[GDR]

Good thing the only thing plants need is nitrogen. Problem solved.

Point taken but you might be surprised what's in manure. Full compliment of macros and micros.

Anyone interested in a system like that but doesn't want cows, there is lots of opportunity for contract grazing. Usually cheaper to take the cows to the feed than the feed to the cows.

Sheepwheat Alfalfa rotation takes either heavy glyphosate application or multiple tillage passes as well as mechanical harvesting and nutrient removal, all of which likely don't fit the concept but otherwise yes it as an underutilized rotation.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Point taken but you might be surprised what's in manure. Full compliment of macros and micros.

Anyone interested in a system like that but doesn't want cows, there is lots of opportunity for contract grazing. Usually cheaper to take the cows to the feed than the feed to the cows.

Sheepwheat Alfalfa rotation takes either heavy glyphosate application or multiple tillage passes as well as mechanical harvesting and nutrient removal, all of which likely don't fit the concept but otherwise yes it as an underutilized rotation.

Manure is miraculous stuff, but still only contains nutrients that were fed to start with, cows aren't alchemists either. If we want to replace nutrients through manure, we will need to stop exporting grain, and only export meat.

[wd9]

Point taken but you might be surprised what's in manure. Full compliment of macros and micros.

Till you run out of fields to steal from