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What factors will cause land to crash or appreciate in your area?

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    What factors will cause land to crash or appreciate in your area?

    Of course, no one has any strong opinions on land prices...

    But every market has different factors supporting prices. Can you make the case for your area, as to why prices have to correct, or have room to move?

    Here, a lot of people are willing to pay a lot for the privilege to farm. Both husband and wife work full time to own a quarter of land with a few cows and enough modern equipment to farm half the county. As long as there are decent paying jobs here, these people will keep buying. Has been a net migration out in the past couple years, but hasn't affected land, these people are still buying. Steady supply of new farmers wanting to get in, at whatever scale they can manage.

    Almost as many people consider a quarter section with a building site with a mountain view, horse pasture, some hunting/quading ground and some trees a much better bargain than a postage stamp lot with a view of more houses in Calgary or other close towns. As long as those folks continue to retire, or have good paying jobs, they will keep buying, the price difference between here and Calgary, indicates that Calgary could have a substantial correction before we would look expensive.

    Even many of us real farmers have the opportunity to work to subsidize land payments. I wouldn't dream of subsidizing farming operations, or equipment purchases, but have spent most of my life working and putting it all towards land purchases. Have the option to do so as a plan B if need be, this will delay or avoid very many distress sales.

    This area has never been about what a farmer can pay, or is willing to pay, so profitability of farmers or average age is somewhat irrelevant, but in recent years, the few remaining cattle farmers under 80 years old are finally upgrading equipment and expanding, even buying land. Grain has been very profitable for the past decade, if recent prices are the new low prices, then grain farming has a bright future here with our yields. Many farms are still diversified into both livestock and grain, so every acre can pay for itself.

    Lease revenue, I have one quarter where the lease revenue nearly makes the payments, both interest and principle. That is the exception, not the reality for most of my land, but there are lots of quarters where the lease revenue far exceeds gross production revenue. And there is always the lottery of winning a new well ( in spite of what everyone says, it is almost always about the money).

    So, by my logic, so long as the energy industry doesn't completely collapse, there is at very least strong support under this market to keep the bottom from falling out, or even keep it creeping up.

    Most of the factors which would negatively affect values here, are bigger picture. Interest rates, energy prices, collapse of farmland prices elsewhere would have to drag us down, but perhaps not as far as pure farmland values would.

    Farmland has never been affordable here, I'm looking at a quarter right now that is nearly 4 times what I paid for the first one, but it is no less affordable than that one was, at least by my math.

    #2
    We don't have scenery but live 50 kms from Regina and urban creep is getting closer, that will help hold land prices up.

    A proposed Potash mine SITE is only 2.5 miles away from our yard, and only half a mile from the edge of our south land. Our farm is "almost" a totally connected block. I don't know how a mine in my back yard will affect values.

    We have a BTO, with suspected/rumoured outside investment drving prices.

    Not too much, if any, land us being bought/pushed up by long time resident family farms.

    Old money.....

    Low debt....

    Attitudinal change from old family farms may need to change

    Low interest rates

    Commodity prices....have to admit the has been raised but would like to see them higher.

    How many near retiring farmers in the area with no one to take over.

    How many young prospective farmers in the area.

    Increased decreased profitability.

    Crop wrecks.

    Comment


      #3
      Migration of filthy-rich Southern Ontario farmers into this area, 50% provincial government subsidization of land clearing and tiling and investment by American hunting interests keep land prices climbing here. Majority 98% are subsidizing heavily with off-farm income. Prices have doubled to quadrupled in last few years and some people are pushing the boundaries of sanity in terms of prices for everything from muskeg and bare rock to open cleared ground. A few extremely wet cold years and poor prices would bring people back to reality - maybe.

      Comment


        #4
        More land for sale around here than has been for quite a while, primarily from old people expiring. Last couple of years were not great for yields due to flooding so that is straining cash flow. Higher rates and the threat of them going even higher are all negatives to land price increases. Lower grain prices as inventory builds is also a negative factor. Pulse acres dropping and higher production of wheat and canola mean that lower commodity prices are to be expected and new land is coming into production. Burning brush piles around here. Also lots of folks in this area used to do camp work up at Fort Mac and that has reduced in recent years as well. Factors that will keep prices high are: nothing else to do so every young person is becoming a farmer these days and the faith in the government of Canuckistan's ability to completely destroy the currency. Fifty years from now the loon will be like the Mexican peso with all serious business using the $USD.

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          #5
          It’s easy stop paying foreign owners of land stupid rent guess what they get nervous and either drop rent or liquidate asset.

          It’s all because stupid farmers don’t understand the fact that 100 acre rent doesn’t work in Saskatchewan.

          We are not Kansas or Iowa or Europe were western canada with one crop and shitty prices.

          Comment


            #6
            the huts are buying here, that probably added 50 a qtr..
            and timing is everything.
            how long will inflation go on.
            there is lot of us 60-70 year old farmers around.
            a lot of land is going somewhere soon.

            Comment


              #7
              We have Ducks Unlimited in our area now. Not overly pleased about it. They have probably added at least $50000/ quarter IMO.

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                #8
                Land around here never sells. That is the main factor in pricing, let alone ever getting your Hands on any. Yes, lots of 60 to70 year old farmers set to retire. But they all have sons taking over, so again, no chance to expand for the foreseeable future. Hard to put a price on land that never sells. Doesn’t matter if it is 10 cents an acre, or 10 grand an acre. So for here, the vast number of young farmers is a big limiting factor. Not bad to have neighbors, but the way many on here talk, growing in acres is a cake walk. Never has been here at least.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Sheepwheat View Post
                  Land around here never sells. That is the main factor in pricing, let alone ever getting your Hands on any. Yes, lots of 60 to70 year old farmers set to retire. But they all have sons taking over, so again, no chance to expand for the foreseeable future. Hard to put a price on land that never sells. Doesn’t matter if it is 10 cents an acre, or 10 grand an acre. So for here, the vast number of young farmers is a big limiting factor. Not bad to have neighbors, but the way many on here talk, growing in acres is a cake walk. Never has been here at least.
                  I don't understand how that correlates with an area where it's almost impossible to grow/harvest a crop. There must be some missing information - you don't have gold reserves in the area do you?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Your not the brightest immigrant to Canada Grass.

                    That area has some of the nicest flattest land around and in flood years it is Bad.

                    More German and Ukrainians with more cash in credit unions than a lot of other areas. Old money made with canola and barley or wheat.

                    Just saying you maybe should of moved their instead of Manitoba.

                    Hunker down in wet years min spending and when it turns dry they will get just the right amount of rain on land that really grows 60Canola

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by grassfarmer View Post
                      I don't understand how that correlates with an area where it's almost impossible to grow/harvest a crop. There must be some missing information - you don't have gold reserves in the area do you?
                      Old money. Lots of it. Within six mile radius, there are 16 or more farmers under 50, with a dozen or more of them under 40, probably ten are under 30. Land just does not come up for sale.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        At least you are keeping the hutts out.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Sheepwheat View Post
                          Old money. Lots of it. Within six mile radius, there are 16 or more farmers under 50, with a dozen or more of them under 40, probably ten are under 30. Land just does not come up for sale.
                          I would think that even old money would eventually run out with no /flooded out crops for that many consecutive years? Let alone to be able to expand throughout that?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
                            I would think that even old money would eventually run out with no /flooded out crops for that many consecutive years? Let alone to be able to expand throughout that?
                            Old money and long ago paid for land. Not a lot of expansion when no one sells out. Kind of a stagnant area, not many real big farms. Lots of 2000 acres an less farms, maxing out at 3 and 4 thousand, which are the rarity right around me. Most expansion has been inter family rentals turning to buyouts, and expansion outside our immdiat area. When land does sell, no one but the using buying out the uncle knows about it. Just enough decent years to maintain. It is a genetic lottery thing here. If you won that, you are good to go! Lol. The little scraps of land that do come up, are bought with co-signing parents, using grandpas paid for land. There was a generation here, the second generation, who made like bandits, and now the kids are able to coast on that. This area historically had never experienced production issues aside from the odd hail storm or fall frost. So from say the 20’s to the early 2000’s, good crops were the rule. That is when the deep pockets were made, and where the deep pockets came from. If my dad had not died, I would be in this group as well, so I do not begrudge it. It is what it is. I just wish I could spin the clock back a decade, I sure woulda, coulda, shoulda planned better, but no one new the weather would go stupid for so long.

                            I do honestly think last year was a saviour to many of these farms around here, excellent crops. Losing say 40 bucks an acre for a few years, even a decade, if you have deep pockets and land equity to lean on, is different than if you lose the same and have no land equity or deep intergenerational pockets to dig into. Hard to explain unless you live here maybe? Anyway, it is what it is. Now that I have come to terms with my own situation better, I have a more positive outlook. I used to be resentful, kind of negative on my own poor fortune. It took many years to realize, hey, we all were not blessed, so what? I gotta move on and do what I can on my own for my own family.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by 15444 View Post
                              Migration of filthy-rich Southern Ontario farmers into this area, 50% provincial government subsidization of land clearing and tiling and investment by American hunting interests keep land prices climbing here. Majority 98% are subsidizing heavily with off-farm income. Prices have doubled to quadrupled in last few years and some people are pushing the boundaries of sanity in terms of prices for everything from muskeg and bare rock to open cleared ground. A few extremely wet cold years and poor prices would bring people back to reality - maybe.
                              Amish and Mennonites from the SW here, up your way too I think. And dairy farmers from the SW buying farms here outright so they can milk here long enough to be allowed to move the quota back home

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