A Study in Infrastructure

[Klause]

This might en eye opener...

Cargil/Richardson ports in Vancouver.



Alliance Grain Terminal in Vancouver... P&H, G3, Patterson use this one.





Now, for some ports in Argentina... along the river that leads up to Rosario. This river was dredged to allow grain to make it to port... These aren't the largest in the country (those are by the capital).


Bunge


And another Bunge

[Klause]

ADM




Cargil


Toepfer and a COOP





And there's many more...


Why haven't we built port infrastructure to keep up with increased yields???


And upgraded the railway system into them....

[bucket]

Because the shareholders wanted their money instead of investing in an exporting country like Canada that would habe been decades ahead of these countries ....instead we are behind decades now....

Blame guys like hunter Harrison and executives from grain cos that can't see past their noses....

[GDR]

I think the geography is a bit different here. Look at the surroundings in your pictures of the facilities and the space they have to work with. Rail lines have mountains to deal with to get to port and really only go 2 routes to the coast, not feasible to build a port without rail. Vancouver expansion would be really expensive real estate not to mention I'm sure there would be major political red tape and environmental resistance to expansion. Also not convinced the climate is the best in Vancouver for any long term storage, out of the train and into the boat likely the best for quality.

No question rail beds should be expanded and capacity increased, but unless it's government funded it ain't gonna happen. It would benefit the prairies but not the rest of the country so no room in the budget for that.

[blackpowder]

IMHO, dinosaurs became extinct because their pea brain was a mile from their ass.
Ditto our infrastructure.
Study history not geography Klause.

[checking]

Imagine what 200,000,000 years of human dominance could accomplish. I'm impressed with dinosaurs.

We will be lucky to make it to 2100 A.D., so no need for port infrastructure.

[farmaholic]

Imagine what 200,000,000 years of human dominance could accomplish. I'm impressed with dinosaurs.

We will be lucky to make it to 2100 A.D., so no need for port infrastructure.

Lol..belly laughed. It must be Friday.

[sumdumguy]

Where there's a will, there's a way, BUT in this country, there is no political will and our farm lobby groups think the way is to spend producer mandatory levies on junkets.

[Kinger]

I think the geography is a bit different here. Look at the surroundings in your pictures of the facilities and the space they have to work with. Rail lines have mountains to deal with to get to port and really only go 2 routes to the coast, not feasible to build a port without rail. Vancouver expansion would be really expensive real estate not to mention I'm sure there would be major political red tape and environmental resistance to expansion. Also not convinced the climate is the best in Vancouver for any long term storage, out of the train and into the boat likely the best for quality.

No question rail beds should be expanded and capacity increased, but unless it's government funded it ain't gonna happen. It would benefit the prairies but not the rest of the country so no room in the budget for that.

Yeah, you bring up some good points. Not sure if grain storability is an issue in Vancouver with how damp it is out there but certainly something they watch.

Most of those terminals in Vancouver have been getting upgrades storage wise and rail capacity/efficiency wise. More so rail side as space is limited there. Nevermind the new terminals G3 and "new" one AGT is doing will increase capacity dramatically.

Once those are operational I think we will see things get better but will still be running into the bottleneck of the railways. Hopefully we see more pressure on the railways for better service once it becomes clear they are the delay.

The comparison to South America is interesting. I'm sure all the graincos here if given the chance would redesign there terminals. Heck just look at what has happened in elevator design. Loop tracks replacing spurs. Steel or Concrete replacing wood. Rail and Storage increases.

South America from my understanding is very similar to the US system where on farm storage is low and most of the crop is brought immediately to the elevator or terminal. Could explain the larger storage capacity down there.

[Klause]

Yeah, you bring up some good points. Not sure if grain storability is an issue in Vancouver with how damp it is out there but certainly something they watch.

Most of those terminals in Vancouver have been getting upgrades storage wise and rail capacity/efficiency wise. More so rail side as space is limited there. Nevermind the new terminals G3 and "new" one AGT is doing will increase capacity dramatically.

Once those are operational I think we will see things get better but will still be running into the bottleneck of the railways. Hopefully we see more pressure on the railways for better service once it becomes clear they are the delay.

The comparison to South America is interesting. I'm sure all the graincos here if given the chance would redesign there terminals. Heck just look at what has happened in elevator design. Loop tracks replacing spurs. Steel or Concrete replacing wood. Rail and Storage increases.

South America from my understanding is very similar to the US system where on farm storage is low and most of the crop is brought immediately to the elevator or terminal. Could explain the larger storage capacity down there.

Damp?


You realize that most of south America has more moisture, and far more heat than Vancouver ever gets. As far as land... we have an entire coastline from Alaska to Washington state... Poor excuses.


If this were Europe, there'd be a tunnel and twinned rail tracks under the rockies, and a real port facility built...

You're right. SA, US, Europe, Asia, India, actually most of the world, grain goes directly to sale. Farmers aren't keepers. We grow it, we sell it, we take the money.

Australia is the same.

Canada is pretty much - no scratch that - western Canada is the ONLY place in the world where a producer is expected to keep grain until the elevator companies figure they need it.


Farm storage is fine to manipulate prices, but every other producer in the world has the option to sell their production at the drop of a hat at any time. Here, you need to book three months in advance...

What I can't figure out is how people are alright with that... and think it's a good thing.

[sumdumguy]

Where there's a will, there's a way, BUT in this country, there is no political will to enhance export and our farm lobby groups think their role is to spend producer mandatory levies on frivolity.

[Klause]

Where there's a will, there's a way, BUT in this country, there is no political will to enhance export and our farm lobby groups think their role is to spend producer mandatory levies on frivolity.

Agreed.


Maybe these producer groups, on there many travels, should go talk to farmers in other countries, elevator agents and tour port and ag facilities.

Instead of camel trips, pyramids, and resorts.

[farmaholic]

Canada is pretty much - no scratch that - western Canada is the ONLY place in the world where a producer is expected to keep grain until the elevator companies figure they need it.


Farm storage is fine to manipulate prices, but every other producer in the world has the option to sell their production at the drop of a hat at any time. Here, you need to book three months in advance...

What I can't figure out is how people are alright with that... and think it's a good thing.

It's a power play they don't want to gjve up